Introduction

[Abbey]

hi, ok i'v done loads of male to baby intros but never with a male this old, 2yrs, and never with a male that has been solitary his whole life.
Does this change anything? Or will it be the same introduction method?
I'm worried because earlier this year I tried to put him with a barren female but they quickly became a moving ball of fur, and this was after using a split cage for 2 weeks. The thing is, I don't know who started the fight because he did seem interested but i'm not sure if it was aggression.
So any input on how I should handle the intro? :fangel: Thanks :)

[Abbey]

I suppose I should mention that the female was on her own for nearly killing her sister, so I suspect her as the fight starter. (I tried to introduce her again because I thought she'd be different with a male)

[Padfoot]

I'd say that you should do it as you always do... Give them some time and see how they interact through the fence. My first pair, Martina and Kuzco, took a month to get them together, I was even thinking of leaving the cage divided forever, but after 2 consecutive fights, and a whole month of changing them around everyday I noticed that Martina stopped attacking the fence, so I gave it another try. Martina wasn't too happy about having to share her cage with the happy and playful Kuzco, but she got used to him and after a while they were snuggling together. 8)

[Good Lord]

before i try give you advice on how to get two gerbials that hate each other to fall in love i should mention, i have no veterinary qualifications, and any advice i give you should not be tryed unless the more experienced gerbil lovers of this forum post and say ,my advice is worth a try. so here it is

get your self a piece of 4mm chip board . and cut it to the correct size so it can divide your cage in two, then drill a hole through it about 5 cm up from the bottom (a hole the right height for a gerbial to peek through) the hole should only be about 5mm in diameter ( not even big enough for your gerbils to touch noses through), the idea here is the only contact your gerbils will have is through this tiny hole. to start with they will know each other is there and they will both be pushing there noses in the hole at the same time,having a good sniff, but they wont be able to touch each other,in time they will chew through the piece of board,maybe in about a week the hole will be big enough for them to touch noses,and in another week it will be big enough for them to push there noses right through to the other side and be protruding into to oppisite side of the cage,and in a further week they should be able to nearly push there whole heads through, untill eventualy the hole will be big enough for them to pass into each others side of the tank, and hopefully they will be so relieved, surprized, happy , confused, or what ever it is they feel when the relize that after weeks of chewing they can now enter the other side of the cage, that they will forget the fight and instantly fall in love, and get on with much more ecstatic activitys, more enjoyable than mearly chewing a hole in a piece of wood..

anyway.. i would be most intrested to hear if this works, as it will prove my point that somthing positive has come from my gerbials fighting, which inturn will prove a point that loctites original reply to my post was a little off hand.

but remeber Abbey dont try this untill padfoot of andrea says its worth a try

thank you for your time
Good Lord

[Padfoot]

I still say that the wire mesh is better to divide the cage. They can see each other completly, they can smeel each other, they can fight against the divider to get the stranger on the other side, but they won't have a chance to kill each other. Fights can leave serious traumas in animals and should be avoided. Gerbils, specially adults, can chew incredibly fast through everything. I had to take out the plastic tubes of my gerbils because the were eating them in a matter of days and I replaced them with TP rolls and wooden and coconut houses. They chew through a 1 cm wood piece incredibly fast.

If there is a proven way to do the introduccions that all responsible breeders and gerbil associations recomend, why try something that might lead to the death of one of our furry friends, just to see if we are lucky or not.

BYE

[Abbey]

heh heh I wasn't trying to get them to fall in love :)
Its just that all my rodents had companions except those two so I thought seeing as how there was no chance of the female getting pregnant, I might as well try an introduction. But like I said, he seemed docile enough and it was the female who did seem more aggressive. I have come across a 'loner' gerbil before, those gerbils that refuse to live peacefully with another, but I always do a maximum of 3 introductions because each gerbil is different and you can't expect to plonk one in and they'll be best friends. and if each of them fails, then I just allow them to live alone. I have left that female as a loner. she is 3yrs 2 months old and I separated her age 2 yrs 9 months so she hadn't been too long by herself but I'm not risking another gerbils life just so she can have company, because I tried her with 3 different males and none succeeded.
I know how to use a split cage and I have one set aside for introduction purposes, I use a stiff mesh.. I'd be a bit worried about using wood.. and 1 hole doesn't give them the contact needed to really get to know each others' scent.
I'll get 2 young male pups soon and see how it goes.. I guess i'll just be more careful because this older male has never shared a cage before and I dont know how he'll react.. but previous intros have all been fine and 3 of my cages have males of various ages living peacefully together.
Well thanks for the help, I'll update you how it goes :)

[Padfoot]

Don't worry, I know you knew how to do the introductions. The thing is that Good Lord and I didn't agree in the first post he made to this forum, you can see why we didn't agree here: http://petshub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=52991#post52991

You'll see that three persons in there did not agree with him, but he still insists that his methods are the right ones... I just say that there are other ways than risking an animals life...

[Good Lord]

ok miss paddyfeet dont get your knickers in a twist, i have allready said when it comes to gerbils you know alot more than me.. i was mearly sugesting a method that might work.. seen as abby has already tried the RESPONSIBLE method, that if you will forgive me to add , doesnt work in this case, so with the proven method not working abbys poor gerbil seems destined never to find love, ah well, seems there isnt always room for love after all, well especially if your not willing to try something new ? which i might add, does work because i have tryed it, which i explained in my first post

http://petshub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=52991#post52991

[Abbey]

good lord you have an interesting view on things to say the least but I would rather stick to the tried and tested methods... also isn't your wood with hole idea just a more primitive version of a split cage...
and um i'll repeat again,its not love i'm looking for with his new company as they will be the same sex.. and i'm pretty sure gerbils don't experience love as humans do, its more animal instinct..

Well anyways, I have marshalls cage next to a cage with 2 young males (not his intended cagemates, they are too old) so he can safely interact through the bars and get used to the idea of other gerbils in close proximity. He doesn't seem aggressive, compared to the other two who are getting very bold and brave now that they have reached maturity.lol He seems quite interested, in a good way. :)

I have 1 question to padfoot or anyone who knows the answer.. is a male drumming his hind legs (not as the warning signal) when looking at other strange gerbils a good or bad thing? I read somewhere it means a friendly gesture but he did the exact same thing when he was being introduced to the female, so if its a friendly sign, i'll be a lot more confident with his introduction.

Thanks for all the posts :) I can't find suitable baby males yet so I'm still loooking but i'll let you know how it goes.

[Abbey]

to quote good lord,
get your self a piece of 4mm chip board .

um just for my own benefit, isn't chipboard bad for rodents?

[Padfoot]

I know 2 meanings of the drumming. One is the "warning/danger ahead" meaning. The other is when the male is sexually excited and ready to mate, to let the female know. I saw Kuzco doing it the day Martina gave birth to her first litter. She gave birth in the morning and in the evening he was drumming at her and then they mated.

I don't know about the chipboard since my primary language is spanish and translations can be tricky sometimes, I'm not sure what exactly it is...

BYE

[Good Lord]

Eeeek.. you may well be correct.. there is a chance chip board might give your gerbils splinters. might not tho. better to be safe than sorry ofcourse .thats why i said dont try this method untill some one else says its ok. maybe MDF board or hard board,these wouldnt give your pet splinters,the piece of wood i used was some kind of ply and although ply does gives humans splinters my gerbils dont have splinters .. well atleast i dont think so.. wait a minute let me check..

*taps on gerbil tank... tap tap* ...*puts on little kiddy voice* ..."hello guys,, how are you all .. do you like your new home" ....."squeek"....... "yes you do..ohhh.. yes you do.." ...."squeek"
"and do you have any splinters" ..... " squeek .. squeek" ....

nope.. they say they have no splinters.. anyway. a few more thingys that i feel the need to reply to.. a more primitive method you say abby... hmmm.... i dont think so.. the thing with the bit of wood idea.. is when the gerbils have finally chewed the whole big enough and can enter into the other side of the tank. it is there own choice if they enter through the hole or not.. i wish you guys could of seen what happened .. to our gerbils when this happened... they relized they could get through the hole. but they didnt go right through.. they would go half way through the hole .. then reverse back.. then the other would do the same thing.. this went on for atleast half an hour.. untill finally one plucked up the courage to go right through to the other side.. .. where as i have mentioned a few times before they fell in love. and are now living happily ever after..

[Abbey]

nope.. they say they have no splinters.. anyway. a few more thingys that i feel the need to reply to.. a more primitive method you say abby... hmmm.... i dont think so.. the thing with the bit of wood idea.. is when the gerbils have finally chewed the whole big enough and can enter into the other side of the tank. it is there own choice if they enter through the hole or not.. i wish you guys could of seen what happened .. to our gerbils when this happened... they relized they could get through the hole. but they didnt go right through.. they would go half way through the hole .. then reverse back.. then the other would do the same thing.. this went on for atleast half an hour.. untill finally one plucked up the courage to go right through to the other side.. .. where as i have mentioned a few times before they fell in love. and are now living happily ever after..[/QUOTE]


but by giving them the option of access to each other, they could just as easily kill each other if they wanted, a split cage allows you to control their interaction and monitor how they are reacting to each other before you allow them to live together..
By primitive, I mean that it has the same concept as a split cage, it allows them to get to know each others scent, however by just one hole, they would concentrate there and chew through very quickly before they are comfortable with each others scent.. I think you were just lucky they didn't kill each other..

[Padfoot]

This guy is being intentionally rude and offensive to people here and making fun of us. Where are the moderators of this forum?

[Good Lord]

thats not true. yes i might be adding some humor,to my posts,and i might feel the need to defend myself when some one accuses me of being not a responsible gerbil owner,

but i find it strange padfoot. because in one thread you say sorry for being rude and say i hold gerbils close to my heart. and on this one you say , im being rude and not a responsible gerbil owner,,

anyway you dont need moderaters to make me go away.. all you need to do is ask me to leave.


right abby as long as padfoot doesnt ask me to leave before you read this.. answer me this..because i never seen a split cage before

1 can gerbils touch each other through a split cage, or is the mesh to fine for them to get there noses through

2 is the divider removeable

3when its time to put the gerbils together, how does this action happen

[fluffyfluff1]

I normally would not butt in during situations like this. This time I am making an exception. Good Lord, your "in your face" approach is doing nothing to win many fans around here. Most the regulars here have had rodents for many years and know what they are talking about. They helped me with the introduction of my two female gerbils.
Your posts are disrupting the friendly mood of these forums.

[Abbey]

ok look its on nearly every site out there if you bothered researching but roughly you put stiff mseh down half the tank, the holes in the mesh must be small enough that the gerbils cannot bite each other but can touch noses. It must be the full height of the tank because the gerbils will easily climb over. Every day, you switch the side the gerbils are on so they get used to the smell of each other
and when they start sleeping on the same side of the mesh and don't attack the mesh, you remove the divider and watch their behaviour. If it is aggressive, you start again from scratch, if not then you watch them carefully for the next hour and if all is well then you leave them together, but constantly check on them.

[Good Lord]

its much more intresting finding stuff out this way,,than searching sites for the info, the reason i asked . about the split cage. was because i was going to carry on the argument about the piece of wood method , is worth a try .. if the ..split cage doesnt work.. but . im to scared to speak now, incase, i disrupt the freindly atmosphere of this forum.. any more..

yours
keeping his mouth shut
good lord

[Abbey]

I got them! and they are all getting along!
I got a dove and a cinnamon and did the split cage for a while and all went well so I put them all on the couch and they sniffed around and cuddled up together!! They are so cute. Marshall was grooming them and everthing. He totally adopted them :) The babies are really tame especially the cinnamon.
hehe I also picked up a gorgeous sable longhaired syrian while I was there...
he's really cute and adorable :)

[Padfoot]

Congratulations on the three new additions to your house. 8) I don't know if you read on the hamster forums, but I also recentoly got a new hamster, mine is an female albino campbell's dwarf hamster. I called her Afrodita (Aphrodite) How did you called yours?

[Abbey]

Congratulations on the three new additions to your house. 8) I don't know if you read on the hamster forums, but I also recentoly got a new hamster, mine is an female albino campbell's dwarf hamster. I called her Afrodita (Aphrodite) How did you called yours?
nice.. goddess of love :)
I called the hamster taz, even though my really old 3 yrs 8 months old gerbil is called taz too.. lol I just love the name, and I figure these will be my last new pets for a while so I want to still have a pet called taz lol He's really quiet and hasn't bitten me yet but he's scared so I'm going to tame him very slowly and gently. I don't even need to tame the baby gerbils! they are crawling all over me when I open the latch!
The gerbils are not definately named yet, but I think i'll call the cream cinnamon, pippin. He's so bold, always climbing out while his brother is following marshall like a lil shadow :) Hey I just found out marshall is a burmese! He is much lighter than my other burmeses but way more darker than my siameses so I looked up loads of pics and he is more than likely burmese. lol

[Padfoot]

yeah, the goddess of love. She's housed along with Apollo (sun god) and Atenea (goddess of wisdom) so I guess I have the Olympus in my room LOL.
I like the name Taz and hamsters can be a bit hyperactive once they are used to their sorrounding, so it was a good pick.
I would love to get a siamese and a burmese. They are not available here (Puerto Rico) From what I have (2 doves, 2 slates, one of them might be black, 2 agouti and 1 rew) and what I have seen in the stores I was guessing that the e gene is not available here. 8(

I hope having pictures to post soon... 8)

[Abbey]

yeah, the goddess of love. She's housed along with Apollo (sun god) and Atenea (goddess of wisdom) so I guess I have the Olympus in my room LOL.
I like the name Taz and hamsters can be a bit hyperactive once they are used to their sorrounding, so it was a good pick.
I would love to get a siamese and a burmese. They are not available here (Puerto Rico) From what I have (2 doves, 2 slates, one of them might be black, 2 agouti and 1 rew) and what I have seen in the stores I was guessing that the e gene is not available here. 8(

I hope having pictures to post soon... 8)
Thats a cute theme. :)
Yeah he's pretty hyper but when I turn the lights down he calms down. He likes sitting in my sleeves so I'll try get him used to that and maybe he'll recognise my scent from that. I love siamese and burmese, they are hard to get here too. I think they are very handsome looking :)
well the babies are still cuddled up to marshall now so I think its safe to say its a success!! I'm really happy because he is being so gentle and affectionate towards them. Poor little fellow never got a chance to socialise when he was younger.. I got him from a pet shop in a terrible condition, he had been born there and been put 'in the back' because he was sick >:(
I spent so long taming him, that I never had a chance to get him cagemates but finally now he has company :):):)