Cat-astrophe!

[RainBogert]

I have quite a frisky, feisty kitty... He's not really ours, exactly... He came to us one day and just never left. I don't know anyone on this street who he might have lived with before he came here. We take care of him and give him everything as though he were ours and he's like our baby, but we leave the door open all of the time for him to come and go as he pleases and for others to do the same, as we have been doing since long before this one came.

The problem we have with him is that he can be really violent sometimes. He's adorable and wonderful, but he sometimes attacks without warning, both us and other kitties. It seems like he's just being playful with us, but he's very territorial and attacks most other kitties he sees. He's become quite tyrannical.

One thing we have never done is had him neutered. I have lived with various pets all of my life and I know... they always say that, when you neuter your pet, particularly a male, they are a lot less territorial, violent and so forth, and that they're calmer and happier... I also know, however, that it can be a traumatic experience for them. It's a shame that the ones that need it the most, behavior-wise, are also the ones that it seems to be the more barbaric act upon.

When I lived with my mother and father, they always had dogs and they were always the ones to get such things done and they usually had females and I never really put my mind so much to the actual concept of it until I was on my own and had my own little animal friends. I can't help but feel that neutering this kitty would be just a step up from castration. I feel like he'd be calmer merely because his spirit has been crushed, like when a horse is broken. It seems sad and upsetting to me.

He can be so vicious, though, mostly to other cats and it has gotten really bad. Other than that, though, he is extremely clean and wonderful, besides.

Can someone please tell me, quite thoroughly, exactly everything neutering entails? What are they doing physically, mentally, emotionally, etc., to my kitty if they do this to him and is he only happier and calmer because he's been immasculated and s**ually lobotomized?

[burnthalo]

they basically remove the testicles. that's it, no castration. they get a few stitches and away they go. They recover really well, and depending on his age (if he's an adult) he probably won't change TONS, maybe just slightly. it's different with everycat. They don't lobotomize the cat ;) or immasculize them. It stops the release of hormones that drive cats to be nutty. (ie testosterone).

[RainBogert]

Hi. Thanks for answering. I knew they remove the... That's why it seems like castration to me. It seems so barbaric. I know, too, that it's the testosterone that does it but isn't there another way? Thanks again.

[burnthalo]

the only thing else i could think about would be a hormone blocker, to block the making of testosterone, they would put in a synthetic form of testosterone that doesn't have the same effects but who's chemical make up is similar so that the body thinks there's too much testosterone in the body and stops making it.

but that would be an ongoing thing, not permanent like getting fixed, and it would be an ongoing cost not a one time deal either. :)

[RainBogert]

Wow, neat-o! :eek: Where do I get it and what is it called? Thanks.

[burnthalo]

honestly, i don't even know if it exists for pets. But that's what would work in humans, and the body's are different but the body SYSTEMS are pretty much the same. (they're trying to come up with more options for male birth control)

ask your vet, she may look at you like you're nuts though :D cause i don't think they've even bothered trying to figure it out, since most people just fix their animals. and it would be expensive.... (everything at the vet is :rolleyes: ) But you can always ask. You never know. :)

[RainBogert]

Yeah, I've heard of similar types of things for humans but I misunderstood what you said as meaning that there was a particular product like this for pets. Oh, well. That would be ideal, but I guess I won't get my hopes up. I'll look into it, though, just in case. Anyone know of any good sites with lots of extensive information on neutering? I just can't get past the whole castration idea and I've never been the one doing all of the veterinary decisions in these cases before.

Also, he may not even be ours. We're so hesitant to be sure that he's all ours just because we're out of ideas as to where he came from. He just appeared one day and has always been here ever since. I've spoken to various people in the neighborhood who have no more an idea of his origins than we do, but this thought is a great part of what determines everything we do with him. We've never stopped letting him go outdoors in case there's someone else somewhere waiting for him and we've put off moving for quite a while which we've been very much leaning toward doing because we can't possibly abandon him but we can't take him from who or whatever else that is his so I don't know if it'd be right to do this if he has another family that was his before us.

[burnthalo]

I think he was abandoned, and that you should take him with you and fix him so that he doesn't make any more homeless kitties.... :) just my thoughts

[burnthalo]

Well my male cat is neutered, and he's an absolute doll.... and it didn't imasculate him... he still knows how to show us he's not impressed. But he's SO lovable... when we sit down he's ALWAYS in our laps or beside us. and when we decide we don't want him in our lap right now, he rubs his body and head all over our feet, (i think he has a foot fetish).... lol

it made him more cuddly i would say.

[PawsUK]

I would advise all responsible cat owners to have there female's (spayed)and their male's (castrated). This prevents unwanted litters. I work in a vet's and the cats are under anaesthetic and dont actually know what is going on. They could be awake and sitting up within 30 minutes. This will also prevent him from fighting over other female cats and he will be much happier without the cuts and bites! :)

[RainBogert]

I'm not sure whether or not he's abandoned... I kind of want to think so because then he could surely be ours, but I know I also have to think of his ties and also his humans' attachments to him, especially if they have children that would really suffer without him. I hate to think of anyone else but me, hee! I want to just make him mine and I typically don't like people all that well, including children, but I know how it feels to lose someone close to you and have experienced it multiple times and could not, in good conscience, take a chance on doing that to someone.

As for neutering him, I think it is the responsibility of the family to make sure the precautions are taken so that nothing unexpected and out-of-hand arises, but I don't know that I have the right to be the one making those decisions.

As for neutering, in general, I know how commonly accepted it is and such but I think of things like how, centuries ago, when they had all-boy choirs, they'd sometimes castrate them to make the boys keep their high voices even when going through puberty, etc., and it seems so extreme and barbaric and I just need to know for certain that neutering the kitty wouldn't be like doing that in any way.

I want to see cold hard facts before me, stating exactly what's done and everything involved, good and bad, pros and cons. I've read and heard, over a span of about twenty years, all about how it affects their temperaments, health, lifestyle in general, etc., but I've never heard anything bad about it. There must be something bad about it and it seems to me that it must be being downplayed.

I think of things like, if there were nothing wrong with it and it were purely beneficial, why wouldn't human males have this done instead of vasectomies? Then I think, "because they're taking his b***s away!" and that, if I were to tell him everything I've always been told about how necessary and how good it is to do it and ask him if he would be okay with it, he'd scream "Hell, no!" and run away from me and never come near me again. Heh, heh. Oh! That is one thing I have heard against it... That they tend to be in a state of pain for a while afterward and keep to themselves and seem distrusting.

I don't want to be the one to make the decision for that to be done to my kitty. There should be a kitty-sectomy, so that they just tie a knot, or whatever, rather than take away his precious little pebbles. Isn't that how all males see theirs?

[burnthalo]

ok here's a con, i've heard that in dogs, if you neuter them at an early age that they won't grow fully.
also, with human males they want their pebbles still because they need them to produce testosterone so that they keep their manly characteristics, (ie square shoulder/jaw .... not develop man-boobs, keep the deep voice... and not have ... pms type symptoms (as in being too sensitive and whatnot (they become more like a woman) ) Whereas with a cat, it takes away the aggressiveness/territorialness that the testosterone causes. Plus a cat doesn't much care if he's less masculine .Also male cats will wander to try and find a mate, and i've heard of people loosing their kitties because they wandered off when in heat.

[burnthalo]

ok i didn't mean they won't grow fully, i meant that their growth would be impeded. But it wouldn't matter if they're neutered after they're older, and no longer a kitten. (but my source of info was from the dog forum)

[PawsUK]

Please believe me that neutering does not stop their growth at all. (just to clear that up) and i totally agree with everything else burnthalo.

[RainBogert]

Wow, I had dogs all of the way up from when I was born 'til I was twenty and never heard of that. Interesting.

Hee! Yes, please don't regard me too strangely from this rather twisted statement but, just today, I was thinking of a man losing his... and having too much estrogen and/or projesterone circulating and I imagined him developing exactly what he wouldn't want and nursing a baby. Hee! Freaked me out just thinking about it. It isn't so far-fetched, either. Males can produce milk, as it is; they just generally aren't in the habit of lactating... They don't even need to lose their testosterone, or anything. Still, it's freaky.

Can you think of any more drawbacks? Strange as this may sound, the more of them I hear, the more likely I am to do it, simply because I've always been suspicious that something is being kept from me, sort of like how vets will often smooth over the description of what declawing is merely because they want to con people into doing it. I keep thinking it's the castration conspiracy that they're working to keep us in the dark about.

On top of that, most males are not too enthusiastic about the idea of becoming very feminine like that, mentally, physically and otherwise but, even without that as a factor, I still think they'd be adamant against having their precious jewels removed. Hee! Of course, that's still often a macho thing. Just tell me a few more bad things about it and I'll probably like the idea more. Hee! It just makes me feel informed and more equipped to make good decisions.

[PawsUK]

Are you sure you are on the correct forum? lol

[burnthalo]

Well with ANY surgery... there's the risk of infection. But if you have a good experienced vet that wouldn't be a question. The vet would put them on antibiotics, and that would take care of the infection. Other than that, i haven't heard or can even think of any other con....

oh yes... and cats are sensitive to anesthetic, and some animals don't come out of it. There's one anesthetic that they are particularily sensitive to and i don't remember what it is... i think the one they most reccomed is "laughing gas" ... nitrous oxide ... but not coming out of anestheic is rare as well.

[RainBogert]

Paws, I'm not sure. I don't even remember what's going on.

Burnthalo, that's scary. :( Do you happen to remember where/how you learned about that particular anaesthetic? I would like to know which it was. Other than that, I think I am warming up to the idea, although still worried that he is not mine to be doing that with.

[Roz]

Neutering can affect their development if done too early. Geld a horse too young and he looks like a colt forevermore. Neuter a male Lion too young and he'll never get his mane in. These are just the obvious problems with early neutering.

I'd like my pets to at least be half-way grown before messing around with nature...

[PokMcFee]

I'm not sure whether or not he's abandoned... I kind of want to think so because then he could surely be ours


Be Yours?? LOL, i can't ever remember when I owned a cat rather than the other way 'round!! :p But i think my cats have me wrapped around their little paws!
I have 3 cats, two females (Babette and Nounouche) and one male (Felix). They are all desexed and i have had no problems. It's still obvious to me in the way that he behaves that he is a male! He prowls around the house and simply MUST go and do a survey of the house before he curls up next to me when i go to bed. However, he has always been a bit of a mummy's boy! I can't remember how old he was when desexed, but it was probably a few months later than the recommended age. He's never been very aggressive nor has he ever sprayed or any of the male behaviours that many find difficult to live with!

Having said all that, he does have a few behavioural problems at the moment, but i'm certain that they aren't related to being desexed, having started a year or two after the fact.
~ Nathalie

[PawsUK]

Neutering should only been done when the animal is 6 months or over.

[RainBogert]

Well, I didn't mean ours as in "owning" him. If you have seen any of my other posts, you may have noticed that I deftly steer clear of using words such as "cat owner", etc. I don't like the concept of pets being possessions. So many people even say things like "owner" without even really meaning it in that way but, whenever I do say something truly signifying ownership, I always say, "their human", indicating the other way around, like you say. When I say "ours", I mean figuratively, like "our baby", "our pride and joy, even if he is a jerk", etc. I would never mean "ours" as in "our property".

As for it being the other way around, he already "owns" us (it should only ever be that way, in my opinion) and he bloody well knows and acts it. I keep meaning to give him a piece of my mind over how demanding and spoiled he is, but I can never even really scold him. I'm such a sucker for him and I totally serve him. It's gotten to the point that I rarely sleep or even have a chance to sit down anymore because I cater to him and some of the other kitties I know (but especially him) as if I were having to take care of a newborn baby. I'm quite sure he's at least a year, though.

[PokMcFee]

Sorry! I was not having a go at you - i gathered from your posts that, like in my house, the cat's are definitely the masters and so was just teasing. Sorry if it offended you, but there was no intent to do so. :)

[RainBogert]

No, you didn't offend or upset me at all, I promise. I understood... Just you mentioning it all made me want to clarify my stand on the whole thing, purely out of paranoia, but I really didn't think you thought that I thought that you thought that I thought that someone else might've thought that I was thinking that maybe I thought I owned them. I realized, when I started to type "didn't think you thought that I thought", that it was, inevitably, going to be potentially difficult to follow and confusing, so I realized it was my obligation to take it all of the way to excruciating. I hope you can understand. It's just something I had to do. :D

[liola]

I understand your reluctance, 'Rain Boggert', as I shared similar concerns with regard to having my own pets desexed. It is true that there is little information available on the actual procedure and the impact of desexing on animals emotional/mental wellbeing. HOWEVER any reservations I’ve had, about having my animals desexed, were allayed when I considered the alternative- unwanted kittens. From what you have described, you may live near a stray cat colony, and, until ‘your’ cat is desexed he will, no doubt, be contributing to a population of homeless kitties. Although it was a difficult decision to make, I believe the suffering of unwanted kittens, stray or otherwise, far outweighs, and is more significant than any negative consequences my cat might experience through the process of desexing.
I live in a large block/estate of flats, notorious for its stray cat population, most of which are starving, diseased and completely wild- unfortunately I see their suffering everyday. Every couple of years, when the population grows out of control, the cats are trapped by the rspca, most of which, are immediately euthanaised because they are either too diseased or too feral to home.
Its such a desperate, horrible situation caused by irresponsible people who either abandon and/or don’t have their pets desexed.
I currently have 3 cats, each of which I ‘acquired’ in similar circumstances to 'Rain Boggert'; an ‘apparently’ homeless cat would visit, one day, for food and shelter and hasn’t left since! I was initially reluctant to have these animals desexed because I was unsure weather they ‘belonged’ to someone else but I decided to do it anyway, because, if there were another owner, they were obviously too irresponsible to do it themselves!
I will not be responsible for contributing to a cycle of misery and desperation; I care about my pets and I am truly concerned about their welfare but I wont have my cat fathering a litter (or two, or three) of potentially homeless kittens, destined to a life of hunger, disease and misery.
While I am adamant that desexing is entirely necessary, I would appreciate any other information regarding the procedure and possible negative impacts it may have on an animal…..if anyone knows anything.
Why DON’T they just ‘tie the tubes’ instead of removing the testicles, with male cats? If they just tied the tubes off wouldnt male cats still be able to mate without the danger of actually impregnating a female cat!??

[RainBogert]

Owy... Stop saying "unwanted". It hurts. Heh, heh. :( Especially because it's usually true. :(

I have never seen any feral cats around here, but I don't doubt that there are some. Everything you said about the ones near you is horrible and I know that is usually the case and it makes me wish I wasn't alive. I so often feel so overwhelmed by the state of this world in terms of how it affects animals that I just don't want to live in it and the only things that keep me here are my fiancé and the fact that I know they need me, all of the animals I can do anything for. It's not just domesticated animals, either.

There is so much suffering inflicted upon all types of animals and humans dish out the most of it and take the least of it. Don't even get me started on what "scientists" do to primates and many other kinds of animals or what really goes on in factory farming. It became so that, long ago, I could no longer live with myself knowing this and being a party to it and I have eliminated every element in my life, that I know of, that contributes to these things in any way. Every time I learn something new that something I do affects badly, I take that away, as well. For instance, I'm vegan, which means I consume no animal products nor do I use anything derived from animals, but I am constantly learning of new things that involve the suffering of animals that I didn't previously know that I eliminate from my life, as well. But there is always more and you can never seem to keep up with it.

Knowing that just me existing and breathing is killing tons of bacteria even makes me wish I was dead, but then I'm afraid I'd be dumped in the ground on top of a bunch of worms and I wish I'd been given the chance not to be born so that I never could have had anything to do with the suffering of any non-human lifeform including sea monkeys but since I'm here, I don't know what to do about it but to help when and where I can but it never seems enough. Wasn't that a nice, humongous sentence? :tongue:

I imagine that, to some people, I am starting to get extreme and depressing, but that's how I feel and I can't help it and I feel the need to say so, but I'm sorry if it bothers anyone. It seemed for a while as though my feeling this way became steadily more intense over the course of months and then it became weeks and now it seems like, every day, these feelings grow stronger and I feel so incredibly tortured and I have been feeling so terribly desperate these past few weeks, more and more, like it's building up faster and faster and I'm gonna lose it. Hee! Nice light topic of conversation. Sorry. Sigh... :ashamed:

Anyway, I can't even remember what I was originally talking about or how I got to talking about what I was just talking about and I can barely remember what I was just talking about. I guess I can attribute that and other things largely to the fact that I have barely been sleeping for quite a while and I know that how much anxiety and despair I've felt lately has something to do with that, too, but I also know it's just as much the other way around, too, if not more. I again can't remember what I'm talking about and it seems such a chore to backtrack. Hee! Sorry if I'm being rather incoherent. I'm gonna take a nap and things will be a little clearer later, I think.

Sorry if I went very far off-topic and if I didn't address everything that was presented to me. I think I'm severely over-tired right now. I am going to take a nap, I'm pretty sure, in about ten to twenty minutes. Take care.

[burnthalo]

i think they can't tie the tubes of cats because the cords may be too small. Don't quote me on that... but they have problems enough with HUMAN 'cords'. ALSO another reason they don't just tie the cords is that getting rid of the 'marbles' gets rid of 'attitude problems (aggressiveness/territorialness)' and spraying.... mostly human unwanted things....

but i agree... if they could find a way of tying the tubes that would be cheaper than neutering i think that would ENORMOUSLY benifit the feral cat population. because if they're feral and live outside anyways.... who would care if they sprayed .... right? And the cats that are pets (in my opinion) would be kept inside, and only go outside under supervision so.... shouldn't be in HUGE danger due to aggressive/territorial ferals. What they should do is figure out this proceedure (and remember it has to be cheaper than neutering, for it to be cost effective) and mass trap the ferals.... and then do the proceedure and then release them again... because MOST ferals are too wild to be pets (aside from the kittens, i'm talking about the older ferals)

I know this wouldn't solve the fact of cats living on the streets and fending for themselves.... and disease and whatnot.... but it would prevent FURTHER kittens to be produced to live in the same situations.... and eventually the problem would dramatically decrease.

I've said enough.

[RainBogert]

I just think... why can't there be candy for everyone? :o

[Crystal211]

Neutering is completely healthy and a very simple procedure. I only have female cats, and spaying is a much more indepth procedure because they make an incision and remove the uterus, rather than just taking the testicles off. All three of my girls came home later to me that day and were walking around just fine...they're a bit sore and tired for a few days, and they have pain medication to get them through. My cats were happy after being taken care of, not having to go through heat. I would take care of this guy and get him done - so that he's happier, calmer, and doesn't father any kittens and add to the surplus population of cats in this world.

[RainBogert]

Yeah, I was wondering if they give 'em painkillers and stuff. Anyway, I'm planning to get him taken care of... I've spoken to one low-cost organization which referred me to another which referred me to another. I'm starting to sound like a parrot. Hee! I said this just a moment ago in another thread. I should copy and paste. Hee! Anyway, I'm waiting to hear back from the last one. Hopefully they answer me soon. Thanks. Take care.

[Crystal211]

Good job, you're doing him good getting him taken care of. He'll be fine and running around in a few days, I promise. :) Good luck.

[PIFTails]

Declawing has no benefit to the cat but altering a cat has the following advantages: -

: Lessens or eliminates certain cancers.
: Eliminates STD and pregnancy
: Reduces wandering to find mates, which decreases chance of road accidents.
: In males eliminates spaying around home.