Avoiding the petshops

[brandy pup]

The biggest advice anyone can get about pet stores is not to sell puppies. kittens, cats and dogs. (and usally most pocket pets)

Hold adoptions with local rescues, there are rtescues for all kinds of animals.

No responsible breeder would ever let a pet store sell their offspring. Its just better for the pet world!

No Pup Mills
http://www.kimtownsend.com/index.html

More information
http://www.brandypup.com/petstores/petstoreshome.html

[brandy pup]

Sorry, here are the links

No Pup Mills
http://www.kimtownsend.com/index.html

More information
http://www.brandypup.com/petstores/petstoreshome.html

[JenHan disease]

i dont think it is wrong to send pets to a pet store! because if no one ever did where would u get pets from? a breeder yes! but i just think it is much more conveinent to go to 1 pet store to get pets! other wise you would have to travel a lot just to get a pet!
its much easier to go to a pet store to buy a rabbit than to find a breeder, and breeders usually only sell 1 type!
the only problem is pet stores cant exactly stop "evil" ppl from buying their pets! and of coarse i hate to think what some ppl do to the poor animals!
but hey thats just my opinion

[brandy pup]

Pets are not convient, pets are living animals. Pets need a responsible poerson willing to put in the time and energy to their entire life.

www.petfinder.com

Look how many pocket pets there are thier.

Buy adopting a rescue/shelter pet or by going to a RESPONSIBLE breeder you are supporting the responsible pet woernship and breeding.

Until people stop thinking of themself and THEIR convienence the needless killing of surpless animals will continue.

http://www.brandypup.com/petstores/livingmerchandise.html

[Rhondakbt]

I do not agree with selling puppies or kittens. :eek: Excellent care? eh? Do you not keep them in cages then? Do they play in the grass, play with people & toys? So they sleep with you in your home while you are waiting to sell the "pet quality pups"? If the answer is no then they aren't receiving excellent care! Pups do not belong in cages, not to go without mentioning what the pups parents go through. Please don't sell puppies or kittens!

Rhonda

[tienna]

thats the thing i think i woulod do different when i can afford a shop i will be selling all kinds of different animals i think that if i go to a shlter and see something there i would like to adopt out i will buy it nutter it and take it to my shop but see i will also sell and breed many animals for the simple fact that yes there are too many animals in this world with out owners but we cant stop life thats how life was suppossed to be no i dont agree on the breeding dogs and cats then selling them but other animals like mice lizards and other ones then i think willl be breed and stuff animals were put on this earth to live happy lives and i will be going to peoples homes to see if they can provide enough care for the animals so i think all of you are right cya/corrina

[brandy pup]

Have you ever heard of the Starfish Thower? Well you are obviously not one.

A friend of ours was walking down a deserted Mexican beach at sunset. As he walked along, he began to see another man in the distance. As he grew nearer, he noticed that the local native kept leaning down, picking something up and throwing it out into the water. Time and again he kept hurling things out into the ocean.

As our friend approached even closer, he noticed that the man was picking up starfish that had been washed up on the beach and, one at time, he was throwing them back into the water.

Our friend was puzzled. He approached the man and said,

"Good evening, friend. I was wondering what you are doing."

"I'm throwing these starfish back into the ocean. You see, it's low tide right now and all of these starfish have been washed up onto the shore. If I don't throw them back into the sea, they'll die up here from lack of oxygen."

"I understand," my friend replied,

"but there must be thousands of starfish on this beach. You can't possibly get to all of them. There are simply too many. And don't you realize this is probably happening on hundreds of beaches all up and down this coast. Can't you see that you can't possibly make a difference?"

The local native smiled, bent down and picked up yet another starfish, and as he threw it back into the sea, he replied,

"I made a difference to that one!"

[Katydid]

I'm kind of on the fence about selling animals in pet shops or not. I definitely would never sell dogs or cats. I'm not sure about birds, fish and small animals. If I could make sure that every animals was really well cared for, clean and went to an excellent home it would be awesome...but thats just not guaranteed. I'd also be afraid of selling rats for fear of people buying them for feeders.

[uberpets]

I like to go to pet shops the way some people go to amusement parks. I will travel to a different state and get out the phone book. I drive around with a map and stop in lots of stores. Sometimes buy something, sometimes not. Mostly I liketo talk to shop owners and employees. Get ideas. In defense of pet shops, There are lots of good little shops everywhere. Its been my experience that there are way more good stores than bad. Seems like one bad will spoil the opinion of the masses. There is a small shop in Anaheim Hills, Ca that is my favorite. Will model my own shop after them. Its on Lincoln near the 93 (?). Dont know the name. So please lighten up on the pet store slamming. Its not nice nor helpful

[brandy pup]

No I will not lighten up on petstores! It is helpful for those who want a better world for the animals.

If someone wants to cuddle and pet an animal go to petsmart and look at the rescue pets, they need love to.

NO petshop selling pups/kits is good. Period.
www.nopuppymills.com

[uberpets]

I certainly dont want you to quit raggin on the puppy mills. They are awful and the people convicted of having them should have to live the same way!
I just got the opinion that you are against all pets shops. I do not plan to have puppies or kittens. We are only gonna carry rodents and piggies and bunnies (and we intend to breed them ourselves.So we wont have a large selection of anything).Sorry if I offended you. I was just defending pet shops, not puppymills.

[brandy pup]

Oh oops. :) I am ok with the pet stores that don't sell pups/kittens. I prefer stores that do not sell pocket pets but I do shop Petsmart.

Sorry I misunderstood your post.

[bradhart]

so, you're only against puppies being sold at petstores, eh? Suppose there's bunnie mills and rodent mills as well. Do they not deserve the same attention?

[brandy pup]

Yes they do desearve the same attention. That is why I didn't get my gerbils from a pet store. I am just not as knowledgable in those particluar pets. But I do know they are irresponsible bred and sold as well. I shop at indepentdant stores mostly that do not sell any live animals, however there is some times when I have to go to petsmart.

http://www.brandypup.com/petstores/chooseastore.html

[uberpets]

I think you misunderstand...bradhart. I am against ANYONE who mistreats, abuses, neglects or otherwise jeopardizes the life of a pet. I would not condone any kind of 'mill', regardless of the animal. That's why I stressed that in my shop, the emphasis will be on accessories. The only pets to be available would be personally bred, few in number and probably spoken for before breeding even took place. :lovestruc

[BreakingDaHabit]

Another thing petshops should do is sell GOOD food and even some prepackaged raw.

[uberpets]

Thats what I am researching now--good foods. I wont even try to compete with gorcery stores or Walmart. I cant stand the food selections they carry. I want to have organic and possibly raw foods. My intention is to stock items where I can read all the ingredients...hehe (like the Nutro Natural that we feed our puppy)

[brandy pup]

Maybe this will help some. Good foods is a smart!
Dry Cat Food Crisis
http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch4.php

SELECTING A PET FOOD
http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=689

Dog Feeding Info (Lists the top 10 foods according to The Whole Dog Journal)
http://www.dogaware.com/

[fuzzydragonfly]

I must agree that the majority of pet stores are less then adequete in animals care where I live. However, I did so one pet shop operating in a main shopping centre that had a large pen for 3 puppies to run around in, healthy fish in large (not overcrowded) tanks and a selection of other pets like rainbow loikeets and ferrits that were in good heath and clean areas. Of course it would not be the ideal situation for an animal to stay in any pet store for a long term period but the setup of the store was impressive. I enjoy visiting pet stores for the simple reason I like animals, and it is difficult to locate breeders in the area. I rarely buy pets from pet stores they are very overpriced to begin with, in the majority of cases it is the animals that find their way to us by people not wanting the animal any more. I refuse to buy puppies of kittens from a pet store as I do not support any type of animal mill. I breed fantail pigeons and bettas as a hobby but I don't force my animals to breed excessive amounts of offspring or keep them in small areas. I am making an it an initiative on another forum to advertise the needs of bettas through a betta care pamphlet I designed and it is amaizing what a difference you can make to people who descide to buy the fish on impulse and don't really know their needs (as many betta enthusists start). I've distributed the pamphlets to local pet shops who are happy to hand them out because it doesn't cost them anything, so rather then having a whinge go out there and make a difference like the starfish thrower ;) .

[brandy pup]

I would love to see your betta sheet. I breed them as well.
http://www.brandypup.com/bettas/bettahome.html

[Lindsayanne]

I think high quality pet foods is the niche that makes or breaks independent pet shops. It's the one place where Big Brother Pet Shops aren't competing with you and the best way to get customers IN your shop. Along the same line, though, knowledgable pet owners are those who buy high quality food- and those knowledgable pet owners are those who are very, very sensitive to pet milling, etc- so if you sell high quality food you need to brand yourself as an ethical, holistic-pet-care-friendly business.

4-5 year oldlap tops can be picked up on eBay for under $200. It would be neat to set up a terminal in your store for visitors to browse petfinder. (you would, however, probably hae to block all other sites. :P )

[brandy pup]

Lindsayanne - GREAT POINT!! and what a great idea!

[Jennicat]

The only pet store where I've seen kittens sold that I agreed with was a local business, because they took "free" kittens that people would otherwise dump, had then vet checked and wormed and given their shots, and charged an adoption fee similar to the local humane society. They also came with one free vet checkup so that you could ascertain that they were healthy.

[brandy pup]

Nope jennicat, that is even worse! I worked for a store like that. What that does is create a dumping area for peoples kittens becuase they are too lazy to get them spayed. They do not charge an adoption fee, they charge a price. They give about 10$ worth of care to the kitten and sell for 20$ plus. They are a big big big profit maker and they prey on people that think this is sweet and admiral of the store to do so. But in truth, the vaccine and the de wormer is NO GOOD unless follow ups are conducted. De wormer at 3 weeks and the vaccine in 3-4 weeks in a series of 4.

Now even I was able to get an adoption policy set up in the store I worked at, I also sent each kitten home with a free (included in price) spay/neuter certificate at the vet down the street. But the day my boss (store owner) came to me and said - move these kittens, they are costing me money. If they are not adopted in 3 days they go to the shelter. I quit and took the 2 sick kittens there with me. (I still have one, the other found a home)

I would not take in kittens from people who's cat had kittens unless they showed me proof of a prepaid spay certificate for their cat. I did assit people who did stray and feral catches when they caught friendly kittens I took them in.

I lost many kittens in the store due to neglect and un knowledgable staff. They are all good people but that doesn't help these kittens in most cases.

People need to adopt a kitten from a shelter or rescue, not from a petstore only in it to make money. And regardless of what you think that IS the bottom line.

BTW- The store I worked at has now stopped selling kittens and is working with the shelter I volenteer at. :)

http://www.brandypup.com/petstores/livingmerchandise.html

[Jennicat]

The employees at the store were knowledgeable, and all animals were in good health. They included a certificate followup visit. No vaccines are good without followups, but that's true of anywhere you go. If you get a kitten from the SPCA and don't followup with it's shots, you're in the same boat. Frankly, if they're willing to pay for vaccines, dewormer, microchipping, and a spay/neuter certificate at the same price as the shelter, and they're doing it for money, then shelters must be rich.

[brandy pup]

I think you fail to see the big picture. I hope I can assist in sheeding a bit of light on this.

The stores do not keep the sick animals in view. So yes, all the ones will be healthy and happy. Even if there are no sick ones who is going to take them to the vet if they do get sick? Who is going to pay for the treatment? Who is going to administer the meds if needed? Who is going to isolate them so no one else gets sick? They do not have a hospital area or a quaenteen area. All incoming need to be quarenttened for 10 days to be sure of nothing contagious. How knowledgable is the staff? Anyone can read Kittens for DUmmies and come off as knowledgable. Someone going into a pet store for a kitten is not going to have the knowledge to really know the differnce. (no offence but if they did they wouldn't be at a pet store for a kitten) Can they tell you a kittens temp, how many teeth, when their eyes open, what are the signs of sicknees, dehydrations, can the trim nails adn give meds, clean ears? Can they clean the cat area a minimum of 3 times a day and in bettween to avoid sickness? Yes some can, but the over all package is nill. Most store do not even keep the sick animals, there is just no were or no one to care for them. The follow up is good but again that is something to make the store appear good.

If you get a kitten from the shelter yes, you will have to take it to the vet for the continuation of the series. BUT if that kitten is NOT ADOPTED and is still at the shelter when it needs those shots/follow up it will get them as needed as long as it is there. If there is a kitten in the pet store it doesn't recieve follow up care like that. THAT is the differnce.

Shelters are not making a profit. They rely on donations from people to continue to function. Each animal in a shelter recieves vet care some are from bad situations that cost the shelter $$$$ to treat. The average price for a shelter kitten here is 85$ that INCLUDES vet care approiprate for age(vaccines, dewormer, flea treatment etc) micro chip, spay neuter, and in some cases 2 months of free pet insurance. That alone would cost 200-300$.

http://www.brandypup.com/petstores/livingmerchandise.html

[Jennicat]

Well, I did talk to their vet, the vet did confirm that animals who were "sick", even so far as minor symptoms such as being barfy, were routinely brought in, and that the vet themselves did quarantine the animals. If the kittens remained long enough to need more shots, they were given. If they were sick, the vet treated them. He was happy to go over the records with me, and show me which kittens had come in for which shots at which time.

I consider myself quite knowledgeable about kittens and cats, as I'm sure everyone does, and I read more than "kittens for dummies". I did take time to consult with this pet store, the cashiers displayed at least a rudimentary knowledge of animal basics, and the actual kennel staff were comprised mainly of local students from our vet college.

Cages were indeed cleaned three times a day, once first thing, once when the "night" staff started, and again before the store was closed.

And, considering that the local shelter told me it was fine to declaw cats and that they'd be fine and show no problems with it, I don't think I'll hold the shelter up as the standard of knowledge.

[brandy pup]

Sounds all good but once again I remain firm that a pet store has one thing in mind - money and kittens that are free to them, cost little and sell for more then they put in are a big profit maker. I am glad you stay on top of them though. It still doesn't help the community selling an unspayed pet or taking in peoples mistakes.

As for the declaw your store can't stop it as well so they are no better in that regards. Most shelters will adopt out a pet already altered so the chance of it being declawed after that is slim. And if someone is looking for a declawed cat then shelters have the declawed cats available as well and provide the education needed to people who are considereing declaws. Does the store educate, give out lituture or have a written contract against declawing? What about being an outside cat? Most shelters have a written contract stating the cat will also be indoor only unless leashed. Does the store have an adoption contract, application proceedure and interview process? Do they check the referances and get written permission from a landlord? Do they take the pet back at any time for any reason at any age with the sole intent to either find a forever home or keep it?

If they do all this then the store would be much better off finacilly and would be more socially acceptable if they donated all that kitten space to the shelter to house their kittens. Then it could also be a tax deducation for the store, extra room for the shelter to house kittens. etc. The store wouldn't have to [pay for food, vet care etc.

[Jennicat]

I didn't say the shelter could STOP a declaw, just that they told me it would not affect my cats. At least the pet store looked horrified and begged me not to, and then started spouting off all the detrimental effects.

Our local shelter does not specify that a cat must be indoors, so asking the pet store to do more is hardly fair. In fact, of the local shelters I've visited, two just ask for your information, and give you your cat or kitten. All the cats are housed together and are given no vet care, as they're simply kept instead of being put down en masse. A friend of mine who felt bad for one of these kittens adopted it from the shelter, to save a life, and ended up with a cat that had severe worms and behavioural problems. Their "contract" was 1.) Where do you live? and 2.) Will you take care of this animal?

"All the space" for kittens could be donated, but at most I've only seen them keep three or four at the time. They wouldn't take in more than they could pay attention to and keep healthily at one time. And yes, I did spend a lot of time researching this, because I wanted to work there and went through the application process. So I did get to see all of their protocols in reference to their animals, not just the kittens. Even for mice and hamsters, it had the vet number posted above the enclosures, where to reach him in emergency, and what to look for as "bad" symptoms, so that even a cashier or someone who was new wouldn't second guess themselves.

[lockshockbarrel]

To anyone wanting to sell animals, think of the costs.
2 rats will cost more than $2500 a year with vet bills, bedding, food and socialization (minimum wage). You won't be able to keep them for 2 days without losing money.
If you breed them, the 4 rats you need will cost more than $11,250 a year, if you breed them humanely, you could sell 3 babies a day and still lose almost $750.

[uberpets]

Please explain how you reached that figure.
We have 5 very spoiled rats and we didnt spend that much in the last year, vet bills included.

[lockshockbarrel]

Ack! Forget those last numbers, I made a mistake. Here are the new ones-

2 rats eat 105g of food daily $.20
Need 1 hour of socialization daily $7
Need 450 sq in of bedding weekly. $.09 (daily)

$7.29 x 365 = $2660.85 + $100 for vet visits= $2760.85. You would need to sell 277 rats to make a profit, approximately 3 rats every 4 days. Can you find 3 people in your general area who want a rat or two every 4 days for a year?


If you were breeding them, you would need 4 rats-
4 rats eat 225g of food daily $.42 (pregnant rats eat more)
Need 2 hours of socialization a day $14
Need 900 sq in of bedding weekly $.18

Now, you could breed 8 litters a year with 2 dams, so that means you would always have a litter. Rats have 12 babies on average, and a socializer probably couldn't handle more than 3-4 babies at once, so that would be another 3-4 hours of socialization.

If you sold them right after they were weaned, that would add up to $35.60 per day.

$12,994 per year. Plus vet bills, which could very well be up to hundreds of dollars per year ($50 for each rat, C-section for a rat is $200, emergency spay $200, Plus rats who have babies are more likely to get sick)

In the very best of circumstances, you could make a profit if you managed to sell each rat for $135.35.