New Betta Breeding Experiment

[Noney]

After a lot of questions and some very good answers the time has come for my Betta Breeding Experiement and that being the case here is the beginning of my log for it!! :D I set up a 10 gallon tank with plants, some gravel, a filter and a airation system. I know that it is reccomended for no gravel, however, I think this set up will be nice for them and there should be no eggs or little egg loss. :rolleyes: My male (Flame, he is a multi with green, blue, red and come clear areas.) was introduced to the tank early this morning. His previous bowl had a lovely bubble nest that was quite thick. I left him alone for a few hours to become accustomed to his new surrondings. :o

Next I have added a glass latern chimney for the female (Sweetpea) and set it with a little help with the rocks securely in the middle of the tank and placed my selected red cambodian female in the glass chimney so she and he can get acquainted over the next few days. Since the chimney is able to be lifted and moved with her in it at various points around the tank, I believe I can keep her in a clean enviroment and with little irritation to move her to do so. :)

My male didn't immediately notice her. After a few minutes he saw her and started to flare up and get hostile. After a couple of minutes he decided to settle down. :)

By introduceing her this way I hope to encourage him to blow a new nest and hopefully be ready with in a few days for the spawn. In the mean time they are both still eating. I am feeding the Wardley's Betta Pellets and brine shrimp which the pair seem to enjoy. :hyper:

I will keep everyone posted on what is happening as new developements happen. Wish me luck all!!! :D :D :D

[HeatherP]

Hey Noney :) See if you can get river sand to fill in with the gravel (unless its a very fine grade gravel). The sand will prevent any eggs/hatchlings from slipping between the gravel and it also is a good substrate for some micro-life to thrive in. Natural food sorce for babies :) Just watch closely, I have had dragon fly larve hatch out and I lost a fry to the horrible little thing. I wish I had put dad in with them, he would have found it and killed it no problem.

[Noney]

New update!! Flame didn't want to build a nest in the tank. Far as I can tell, I have done something wrong. So we have now unplugged the air pump and I might very well unplug the filter system and see if that is our problem. :) The reason I have come to this conclusion is 1)Spouse and child pointed out that all of our males are in a bowl/vase and it doesn't have either filtration nor airation system so that might be throwing them off. 2) They just don't want to play nice with me. :D :o

So now we are going with Fireball (a red male) and Dart (bright red female) and we are going to see what happens there. Wish me luck!!!

I love my fish! :heartbeat

[HeatherP]

I admit to having 0 fiter system in my tank, well outside the plants and snails. There is just the aquarium light going for heat.
BTW, you can steal nests from one male to use for another one to spawn in hehe.
GOOD LUCK!!!!!

[Noney]

First question........How do I go about stealing another nest from one of the others??????? :applause: :scared: :innocent: :eek: Wish me luck, adding my female tonight to the chimney so that she has time to prepare!!!! :D :D

[HeatherP]

Very gentle scoop it up on some styrofoam or something like that, and then very carefully place the nest in some floating plants. It's a bit tricky, but can be done :)

[Noney]

We Have Spawn!!!!!!!!!!! Flame has built a lovely bubble nest under the styrofoam cup that I cut in half and provided.! He filled the cup. However, in my inexperience and impatience Dart will not be the mother of his first spawn with me. He is spawing with our turqoise (sp?) cambodian we call Grandma. She is very pretty however, my daughter thinks she looks old. We shall see what children we gain from this match!

We left Grandma in the chimney for about a week, feeding her tropical flake food (she doesn't care for the betta food at all! :confused: Someone I think forgot to tell her she is a betta!*LOL*) and frozen brine shrimp as well as freeze dried. Up until today I didn't notice the small white tube like thingy under her belly, when I noticed it today we assumed (Correctly so! :p ) that it was the breeding tube I had been told to look for and had no idea what it was going to look like. WE NOW KNOW! :applause:

At this time 6:33 pm Eastern US time, we are currently spawning and have been so for about an hour and a half. Tomorrow I must remember to buy the fry food. :jump: So that Tuesday or tomorrow evening I will be prepared for the fry.

We will keep you updated on spawning and hatching as it continues on....:lol: And many thanks to all who has helped me Especially HeatherP....Your a godsend, Girl!!! :applause: :surfing:

[Noney]

Grandma has now been moved to her original 55 gallon she lives in with her "sister" fish, Fireball is doing his duty and carefully watching over his huge nest. :D We are all tickled pink (me more so than the others, I think...:lol: ) I removed Grandma at about 7:00 pm when she began hideing in the plants I had put in for them! :p She was fed frozen brine shrimp and tropical fish flakes (her fav! :yes: ) and is recuperating from the nastiness that Fireball started the courtship with. :D

We will keep everyone posted as the days where on! :cloud9: :rolleyes: :D

[HeatherP]

Congrads! I hope they hatch well and you are there to see it!!

[Noney]

We have FRY!!!!! They are so hard to see but we expected it. Anyway, Fireball was removed yesterday and is now eating today. He sulked at first but even though he hadn't been showing any aggression toward his youngsters, the bubble nest had basically popped and he was just trying to keep them corralled into a styrofoam cup. We felt sorry for him, he has shown how good of a Dad he is but he had to be moved. :p

And actually I had moved him the night before when we first started seeing the fry swimming around a bit, but he was sulking and I read somewhere that you leave them for awhile after the fry hatch, so we put him back, and he still didn't show them any aggression so I think he is a deffinate keeper for our breeding program!! :D

The fry hide in the plants still but when I add the fry food they come out, at least some of them and I saw some free swimming, so I have hopes! :cloud9:

We have only one more problem to overcome...........I need another tank so I can spawn another pair.... :yes:

Oh, yes, I added some water to the tank, and the fry like to come check out the hose too.... :scratchch I use a 1 gallon bucket, I get the water close to the temp of the tank, and then siphon the water into the tank to add to the tank. We haven't done a water change yet, since the tank was half full during the actually getting to know you/spawning period.

Grandma is doing well, she has recovered and I am seeing already some tail and fin regrowth on her. :applause: She is eating normally. I give her the flakes she likes and some frozen brine shrimp and is enjoying every minute of being pampered...

Further updates will be comeing as the fry grow!!!! Any helpful advice during this time would be appreciated by one and all!!!!

[HeatherP]

WONDERFUL!!!! CONGRADS!!!!!! Little babies are soo tiny and cute in an alien sorta way hehe(sperm on steroids lol). The dad being sulky is way I just leave them in but that cuts down on breeding. They are ready to breed again about 2-3 days after the babies are free swimming hehe. They really are amazing fathers aren't they? They will wash the babies as long as they fit in their mouths hehe, looks a bit like they are chewing them till a dizzy baby comes flying out lol.
Just keep feeding them pond water or that liquid fry stuff for the first few weeks till they are big enough for the bbs or worms. It takes a few months before baby bettas get to any real size, but after 6 weeks they turbo grow. I wish you the best of your luck with the little ones!
P.S. Don't worry about cleaning the tank, I believe that is purely optional, there are snails you can get (like trumpet snails) that will do a bit of clean up for you without harming plants.

[Noney]

Am I suppossed to have trouble seeing them in the first few weeks? I mean, I rarely see them, and haven't in a couple of days. I am a little concerned.....should I just wait a couple of weeks before a water change and all that so that I don't suck up the little monsters? :confused: :scratchch

I am quite worried. But I feed anywhere from 2 to 4 times of day since I get up early in the mornings, and go to bed late at night, four feedings work into my schedule with them. They aren't large feedings, just a couple drops of the baby food each feeding, so not to overwhelm or to nasty up the tank. :eek:

Thanks for the Congrads.........lets hope I keep them babies alive now :lol:

[HeatherP]

Yup, new borns in a planted tank are like looking for needles in a hay stack. Don't worry about water changes, but if you do want to make ones stir the area with you finger and us a white colored cup (makes it earier to spot ones you might scoop up) or a bit of tubing with bbs net over the end (rubber bands are nifty). I only add water. But that works for me. They will be easier to spot at about a month or so old but still not that easy.

[Noney]

So you don't do water changes in your fry tanks? :confused: I went to a site called Bettatalk (http://www.bettatalk.com/mistakes_to_avoid.htm) and it had the 10 costly mistakes to avoid and one of them is not doing water changes. :scratchch Also, I went to a couple of sites one on the Bettatalk (http://www.bettatalk.com/fry_growth.htm) and the other Waynes Betta Pages (http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/bettagrowth.html) and both showed about the same images. It looks like they even used the same fish....:lol: Anyway, it said they can't be seen for awhile so I am not going to have fits until they are at least a month old and I still can't see them. I just worry about if I am going to end up killing them before they have a chance to really live! :eek: On both sites it said from the looks of it, that the babies will be about the size of baby guppies at 4 weeks so that is when I expect to really see them. Until then I keep the filter clean, and keep adding baby food. I am feeding four times a day. I figure that if I space the feedings out and do four times a day that gives them extra food to graze and grow on. Ok, Ok, I just want them to hurry up and grow so I can see them.....:lol:

[HeatherP]

I did do with my very first 2 spawns. It didn't work for me, both spawns total losses and boy did that suck. It seemed to me that while dad was in there they did great, after I took him out they all died one by one, and to top it off, dad fish was depressed, laying on the bottom playing dead for days. So spawn 3, dad stayed in till they were 6 weeks old, in a smallish planted tank. Sides were so over grown with green stuff you could only see in it through the top. I counted them as I moved them to a bigger tank and had close to 500 of them. Their new tank came with a built in filter system that I used (bye-bye bubbler). I lost fishies to some dragon fly larve that I guess hatched out of the river sand and a few months later I had the weird weird thing break out in my tanks(by this time they each had their own 'place' and moved out the aquarium), it looked like some flesh eating something or rather was killing them. I'll I could figure is it had to be something that got in the water while it was aging. After they went into the aquarium it was basic aquarium care.
After the size of that spawn I started removing the female during after a few embraces hehe. But because leaving dad in worked for me, I kept doing it. I have had one male eat his fry, but second spawn around he didn't.
(*NOTE* I did add water to the tank as they grew, I just didn't take any out.)

I am now a firm believer in:
Daddy's playing a role in raising young fry.
Males and females that are left in togeather will continusouly breed and live happily with their young if given enough space, however I have yet to try breeding deltas, hm, ct, or dts. Only been lucky enough to get vts, plakats and plakat-vt crosses into the spawning tanks. (BTW I love finding the plakats, ps peeps think they are females hehe)
Horrible things can happen to spawns no matter how old they are/what method you use. (One gets sick and like all comunity tanks it spreads like crazy.)
While my methods may not seem right to/for some or most (hehe) breeders, for me they are.
What I do know for sure is if you find a method that works for you, stick to it.

My babies don't grow as fast as that guys does, maybe more feedings althought I worry about over feeding them. They end up normal betta size, just don't get there as fast, more like a nice steady pace. The dad of my experiment is small sized, mom was bigger in body, and anyway, I guess I should be happy lol.The oldest spawn would be eating the youngest by now :D I could be I have a balanced selection of plants in my tank and that helps keep everything at normal levels. The plants are growning like crazy. Another cool thing I spotted in my big tank is this little worm in the sand, no idea where he came from, but I am sure my plants love him.

[Noney]

Here comes another stupid question.........I am feeding my fry the Wardley Small Fry Liquid Food for all Baby Fish and I have been noticing stuck to the side of the Baby Betta Tank are these long thin worm like white thingys. -detective Now, being new to breeding Bettas and all, I am wondering, what the heck are those? :confused: Are those the fry and they have just gotten long and thin, or are those something else? And if it is something else, then it must have come from the baby food, new plant (we have 3 snails in the tank now because of the plant....they hitched a ride it seems), or the little side filter system that I put in for them? Help, I am sooooo lost. :faint:

And also, how important is it to feed the fry live food? Honestly, if those long white wormy lookin thingys are my fry then they are doing well so far, can I not wait until they get a little bigger before I give them live food? :confused:

Just a little thought...............thanks for the help!!! :)

[HeatherP]

You can start feeding the bss now:) Those white wormy things are FOOD! lol They probably came in with the plants. Those are what I call betta speggetti :) As the babies get bigger they will start munching them. Your babies should start looking close to little fishies with round head/bodies and long tails (with a little poof on the end for a tailfin lol). I keep track of how my youngins are growing by pouring a little water over the top of the tank, sends the babies out where I can better see them. I read on Mr. Paul's site (biloxi bettas) that he starts feeding them a small amount of bss from day 1, so I started adding a drop to the little tank and yup, the little ones go crazy :) Dad does too, he loves the popcorn shrimp lol.

[Noney]

I am not so sure I have any little babies now. All I have seen in the last few days are the betta skettie..*LOL* And I just tried pouring about a cup of warm water in the tank, and didn't see anything. :eek: but I am going to keep Looking for the little monsters. -detective Afterall, they were only hatched 2 weeks ago, so I should take a deep breath and keep feeding them the food and (crossing fingers) hopefully some of them have made it.

I am afraid that if I call it a wash and try to spawn another pair that I actually do have some fry in there and the new dad may eat them. What do you think? :confused:

I am going to take a look at this biloxi bettas site that you mentioned and see what he has to say. I know I still have alot to learn so that is what I am going to do! :lol:

[HeatherP]

www.biloxibettas.com He has 6-packs on sell :) Oh I love his fish. I asked him old he stopped breeding his fish and he told me around 2 yrs as well with some of them. I started feeding my little ones bbs a few days ago and its made a big differance.
They are much easier to spot by 4 weeks so hold you breath and just keep with feedings and get as many eyes as you can hunting for them. Try messing with the plants or removing some in a few weeks and to find out for sure. If the tank is well lit you might spot one of the fast little buggers darting for cover. If it's empty in a few weeks time, you have an aquaruim well set up to take care of a new nest of new borns :)

[Noney]

So still give it a couple more weeks before I know for sure, right? :cool: And if I don't, I think this next time, I might make some changes and remove the gravel from the bottom, add sand from the lake and I might use a little bigger styrofoam cup as well just to be on the safe side. :D

I already know what pair is going to breed next.....Sherbert (my orange male) and my new female (still not named) that is a yellowish (pineapple) color all over. He has a bubble nest the size of his 1 gallon bowl that sits on top of the desk. He is just a happy little bubble blower...:lol:

I know I made alot of mistakes with this first spawn. I changed the water temp (slowly but changed it), didn't have a good cover over the top, added filters when I should have started with one (the underwater kind that sticks with suctions at the sides of the tank) and of course, I think I might have removed Dad a little early. Of course, this time around I will also start some bbs the day before I expect babies and that way I have some live food for them as well. I will also be a little more patient with the whole process now that I know what to look for as well. I got ahead of myself a few times as well. *lol@self*

But once again, I will wait a couple of weeks before I get this all going again. Oh, yep, I found something else to use for the pair to get acquainted in. I am going to lower my water level to 8 inches and I am going to use a double betta hex for her to stay in until we are ready for the spawn to occur. It has a lid so she can't jump out like Grandma did out of the latern chimney.......

Speaking of Grandma, I am sorry to report that she passed on due to unknown causes. The other females in the tank looks healthy and good. She kinda had a full look, but not real bloated and her breeding tube was stuck out, and she just hung out on the bottom of the tank. Since she was still eating, I figured she might snap out of it, however, she passed on last night. :raincloud

Any thoughts are appreciated. :D

[Noney]

Well, this first spawn was a bust folks... :sorry: :no: So we are now going to attempt number 2.....Father will be Sherbert (orange male) and Mom will be Pineapple (a gold yellow female). New tank set up....going with sand bottom, new submersible filter for 2-10 gallon tank that has a cup under the out flow to keep from disturbing the sand, father has instead of styrofoam cup a clear cup that I saved when I bought (gasp)a male betta in from Wal-Mart, live plants with a snail as well as plastic plants, a submersible heater that is set for a 2 gallon (only about 6 inches of water in the 10 gallon so we shall see if it keeps the tank on the 80 degree heat mark or not), and I am useing a double betta hex for Mom to get aquainted with Dad in submerged in tank. The tank is only filled to a smidge below the lip of the Double hex and the lid is kept on it so that Mom can't get out and Dad can't get in until we are ready. And I am trying to give a try at hatching BBS so they can have live food to get ready for the big day. Wish me luck. I think I have covered everything but if I have forgotten anything, please someone point it out! Apparently I need all the help I can get...:lol: :chat:

Oh, and tell me has anyone tried using Aquarium salt instead of rock salt to hatch BBS and did it work? Forgot the rock salt and using aquarium salt instead so even if nobody answers or has tried it, I will give you the results! :D :goldfish:

[HeatherP]

YES! Aquarium salt works good (if your talking about sea salt for aquariums, thats all I have ever used so I don't know about rock). Don't forget to turn the filter off after they spawn till the babies can swim around on there own :)

GOOD LUCK!

My yellow ate his eggs. Silly bugger!

[Noney]

No, I mean the box of Aquarium Salt that you put in fresh water tanks for your tropical fish. Is it the same? :reporter: :D

[HeatherP]

Hmmmmm.. I will see, I have never used it in my tanks. Something worth looking into... hehe I'll see what I can find out

[HeatherP]

Okie Dokie... it's the same stuff :) NaCl
god bless yahoo lol

[Noney]

Hehe.....added some table salt to be on the safe side....will see if it is a bust....might be not keeping it hot enough. I am going to have to look into fixing something up to keep it warm and all that.... :eek: Will keep you informed...:lol: Thank you for the help! :D

[Noney]

Just for the record, table salt and aquarium salt will not work for doing the baby brine shrimp. THAT was a bust. Got it together now, however, my males have all gone on strike, since the weather outside has gotten cooler. Now nobody but the females want to breed. I can't win for losing...*LMAO* :rolleyes: :slaphappy So now we are starting completely over again! Will let ya know who is going to be hopefully breeding...*lol* :D

[Noney]

Just in case anyone is still reading my thread, I made a website that has several different links to help find alot of information on Bettas and breeding/feeding/care. If anyone is interested the site is


Nans Bettas (http://www.geocities.com/ntalb00/index.htm)

Still Underconstruction but if anyone has any other helpful links for me to add, I would appreciate the help! Thanks for your time!!!

[silknscruff]

i was just curious to see how you where going with your breading now.

This thread is so interesting to read!

[Noney]

I am glad to see that someone is still reading this thread. I am doing very well with my breeding programs, so far.... :D Had a bit of a problem getting started, but now I have 2 tankful of fry. :crowded: My only problem has been getting the bbs to hatch now... :blush1: :yell: If you want to see the mistakes I made and then what I did to successfully breed, here is my WEB PAGE (http://www.geocities.com/ntalb00/index.htm) as well as some helpful links if your looking for information on bettas. These are some of the sites that has helped me. But Heather has helped me the most!!!! :D

Have a good day!!