We need sleep!!!

[Sophie Girl]

My wife and I bought a 9 week old puppy back on Saturday, January 29th. She is a lovely black German Shepherd named Sophie. We tried the first two nights to crate her in our kitchen only to recieve crying, whining and yelping pretty much non-stop. Finally on the Monday night we put the crate in our bedroom right next to our bed. She was MUCH better. She's consistently cried/whined around 2 AM and then again at 4 AM. We simply put our hand on the crate and let her sniff us and let her know we are there. After about 15 minutes (sometimes shorter) she stops. Since my wife is a teacher she's up by 5 AM and takes care of the dogs needs such as going outside. Well last night she somewhat fell back into her old ways. She just would not stop crying. I took her out and she peed but she was ready to come right back in after that. I put her back in the crate and the crying/whining started again. We tried everything until finally after both of us realized that we were not going to get sleep we did the unthinkable. We let her into our bed. After some licking and searching under the covers she went to sleep. I REALLY do not want to use this as the means for her to stop crying but you are dealing with two people who have long hard days ahead of them and need that important REM sleep (as I'm sure you all do too). I've read some things on the web such as play with them before you go to bed but she's usually out by 9 (my wife goes to bed about 30-45 minutes later and I'm in bed by 10:45). We put a toy in her crate as well so she has something to play with. We've partitioned the crate so she has only so much room. Do we just need patience?? Is there some tips out there that people have used in the past for this problem. I'm open for anything at this point.

[mep319]

The consenus on dog behavior is once they learn a behavior it takes 50 negative experience for them to stop the initial behavior...so you have set yourself back quite aways. You rewarded a negative behavior! You MUST leave the dog in the crate until she stops crying. YOu must never take out a dog that whines or barks. When you take her out when she is being quiet, be sure to reward her, make a HUGE fuss. She eventually stop, trust me. I had a boxer that whined for 2 wks straight. What we ended up doing is putting the crate in the basement & bought earplugs just so we could get some sleep...after 2 wks we were able to move the crate back up stairs and lose the ear plugs. Do not let her back in your bed unless you plan on allowing her there always. Buy a white noise machine, earplugs, whatever but she needs to go back in. Be sure to place the crate up against the wall or in a corner of a room...the do not like to be in the open while sleeping. Also cover the crate w/ a blanket...but do not cover the front of the crate. This allows for their natural den instinct. A dog does not sleep alone as they are pack animals, but after you get her to stop whining you can allow her back in her crate in your room. Which should help her emotional well being by allowing her to be near you. Good luck!

[Fran27]

I'm really not an expert but from what I've read on the web, you should ignore her when she whines. I know it sucks and it's hard, but if you ignore her and only lets her out when she stops crying, she will learn that crying is a waste of time and that if she has to be quiet if she wants attention.

I have a 10 weeks old puppy that I let in the crate a few times a day as well when I am close to him, I leave the room a few times, and now he doesn't cry anymore when I leave (except when he hears us talking in another room... it will get better though), and didn't cry at all the last two nights (we are lucky though as we got him on Sunday). My first dog (a long time ago) took a much longer time to get used to sleeping alone in the kitchen, and we did have quite a few awful nights for a while... But it gets better!

So... Get her used to her crate : leave her there for 30 minutes-one hour a day when you are around, feed her in it (I put the food in the crate with the door open), put toys in it, and something that can help is if you put a tshirt you wore in the crate with her, without cleaning it of course. Just make sure you don't really like the tshirt as you may never get it back in one piece...

Just be firm. Never give in to her when she does something you don't like, or you will have a badly behaved dog. Good luck!

[creativz]

This brings back memories, I refer back to my puppy days with Ganny as just like having a baby ! She needs time, training and lots of patience. You'll have to stop the bed thing unless you plan to always let her sleep there, I managed to teach my Griffon "get down/get off" for the bed probz, whilst also always using hand gestures, he slept there every now and then, but would eventually remove his rump on command, always slept in bedroom though, it was either that or he'd have the door off the hinges trying to get in ! If you don't have the time that's required to train a pup, then have a think about some obedience classes, it's good to start early as possible, basic training is lots of fun and so essential for safety of dog especially when out walking, you're going to need her to respond to your commands instantly. You'd probably get much more quality sleep if she was dog tired, training in small doses is best, their attention span is so short, so keep it up rewarding her as you go, lots of praise for when she does something good and ignore her completely when she does something bad, she'll learn that it doesn't get her anywhere, puppies have so much energy, attention is all they want, so telling them off is simply more attention, doesn't work, they'll just continue the bad behaviour, play with her as much as you can, give her a special blanket to sleep with, even an old jumper that has your scent works a treat, she'll drift off thinking she's in the bed with mummy and daddy.... that's her heaven. I wish you well !

[Sophie Girl]

Thank you all for your responses. They were all very helpful in their own way. I think I also needed to hear that this is natural and in time and w/ good training all will be well in the end. Thanks again.

[silknscruff]

have you ever considered that she needs to go to the toilet at 2Am then at 4Am.....

This is probably the problem (sorry, bad grammer). unfortunatly, your problem isnt letting her on the bed, i think its toilet training her.

This means you're probably gonna have to get up and let her out to go and have a sniff and a wee.

give it a bit of a think

[Sophie Girl]

As I stated in my original thread that I did/do this but either she sometimes doesn't go and after I put her back in the crate she still whines. I think that if that were the case (and I'm not saying it never is not) that why when I put her in bed w/ us she is quiet as can be?

[Norman]

As mentioned above leave something of yours with your scent on it in the crate with her. Wear an old (nothing you want back) t-shirt for a couple of days - sounds horrible but no perfume or deodarant so gets your true musty smell and not masked.

She may well need to go sometimes at night as puppies can only hold it for one hour for every month old they are. She is 9 weeks = 2 months so can probably only just hold it for 2 hours and a bit at the most.

Puppy classes are great fun. Not only socialises the dog with other dogs and people so are calmer around other dogs etc whenthey are older but they also learn the commands in a busy environment. If she obeys you at class she'll obey you in the quiet of your own home. You also meet other puppy owners who are having the same problems as you aso you learn things are normal and also tips on how to solve them.

[Sophie Girl]

Though we have been trying to avoid this we moved Sophie into the basement/lower level of our home last night. She started her whining around Midnight and after 40 minutes we couldn't take it anymore and moved her. We did get sleep but I still feel horrible. The post from mep319 made us realize it was this or we were not going to make it with this new puppy. Thanks.

[mep319]

I know how you feel...I felt horrible! A friend that is a dog trainer told us to do this.... I didn't have children at the time but I think I felt as bad as when I let my DD cry one nite for the same reason! Of course I caved after about 30 mins w/ DD...and she is 8 & still has to fall asleep in my bed! lol! I promise it will get better...the worse part is when our boxer whines she sounds like a child...not a dog! And boy is she loud! Try to remember not to talk to her..don't yell at her...Nothing! Just completely ignore her. B/c even if you correct her...she has gotten your attention and even if it is negative that is what she wants. Hopefully you will be able to move her back up soon. When she does calm down...please remember dogs are pack animals and they should sleep near you or someone...even if it is another dog/cat etc...but only after you get her to stop crying! Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[CTChin]

She may well need to go sometimes at night as puppies can only hold it for one hour for every month old they are. She is 9 weeks = 2 months so can probably only just hold it for 2 hours and a bit at the most.



I've housebroken 5 puppies in my life and while I agree that 9 week sometimes can't make it through an 6 to 8 hour night, if they are walked before bed, they should be able to go a minimum of 4 hours.

My experiences with Shepherds is that they are very smart, needy and require a lot of exercise and activity. You have to be tough but if you meet its attention and exercise needs, she should be able to settle down at night. You mention that you both work long days, so you are going to have to work harder to meet this little girl's needs.

[Fran27]

I guess it depends on the dog. Mine is 11 weeks now and has no problem holding 8 hours during the night. I realize I am lucky about this though.

[CTChin]

Most puppies by 12 weeks can sleep through an 8 hour night.

[mep319]

I've always been told it is however old they are in months plus one. So if they are 4 mos old they should not be expected to hold for more than 5 hours and so on. Of course it tops out at some point. Plus the smaller the breeder the smaller the bladder so a shepard can hold it longer than a shih tzu.

[CTChin]

That's a new one for me LOL...and I've been "into" dogs for a while. I think a sleeping 4 month old pup is different than an awake eating, sleeping, playing 4 month old pup. I think a 4 month old pup should definitely make it through an 8 hour night without having to go outside.

[mep319]

I'm not saying some can't hold it longer than that...it just they are not expected to. If you are luckier than I was great! Both my dog trainer friend & my vet told me the same thing so I assumed it was some kind of common knowledge that I had previously missed out on! lol! :p

[Fran27]

I think that the problem isn't that they can't hold, it's that often they have no reason to hold... until they get used to going outside and getting rewarded for it.