10 gallon disaster, dying fish

[ars4986]

I have been having alot of issues with my tank. I have a 10 gallon tank and over the last six months I have lost so many fish. I am hoping someone reads this and responds with an answer to my problem or at least an idea I could try. I have tried lots of different things and nothing has helped. The water gets cloudy and then the fish start to die.
I started out with 1 plecostomus and 12 neon tetras. All was well (water became a little more cloudy over next month), I think I might have lost one or two neons. About a month later, I added 2 corydoras, thinking that all I needed was a fish that would eat the food that fell to the bottom and I was hoping that would clear up the water. The water did clear up some and then went cloudy again. Later, when I was down to 1 plecostomus, 8 neons and 2 corydoras, (thinking it was just bad fish), I added three dwarf powder blue gouramies. Two days later, one of the gouramies died. 2 or 3 more weeks passed. Gradually over the next several days, I started loosing a neon a day, then at the end, it went from 1 a day to 3 a day. I only had 2 or 3 left. About a week or so later, I decided (to cut down the number or fish) to take out the plecostomus, about 3 or 4 inches long, and move him to my goldfish tank. I believe I also did about a 1/3 to 1/2 water change, which the water cleared up for a while. About a week later, knowing I need a plecostomus, I bought a little, not even two inches long, plecostomus and 4 more neons (which made 6 or 7 neons, 2 corydoras, 2 powder blue gouramies, and a plecostomus). About a month went by and I hadn't had any problems, I thought I was out of the whole ordeal. Over the next several days the water got cloudy, and I started loosing neons again. The water got real cloudy and I couldn't stand it any longer. I was down to 3 neons, and my abino corydora and my little plecostomus started acting like they were sick and were going to die. Frustrated, I took out all the fish that was left, put them in a bowl, and scrubbed everything and put fresh water in it again. I decided to start with a clean tank again (like when I first got my tank). I even took out all the plastic plants and decorations in the tank. My little plecostomus died before I could get them in to clean water but my albino corydora survived. After a week, the water looked great and I decided to add a few small live plants in the tank. A week later I added 3 more neons, making 6 and another plecostomus. The last 3 neons and this last plecostomus I got at a different place. Yes, all of the other fish were from the same local pet store, that everybody else loves. Anyways... The water looked still great, slightly cloudy. A week later it started clouding up again (it is currently cloudy). It was now about two weeks from today. Then, two days ago, my albino corydora died.
From the local pet store I bought:
16 neon tetras, 3 are left
3 dwarf powder blue gouramies, 2 are left
2 corydoras (1 albino), 1 left
1 medium plecostomus, still alive and kickin it
1 small plecostomus, dead
The other store's fish (1 pleco. and 3 neons) are still alive
Other details: I have a 10 gallon tank, a heater set to 76, and a power water filter (Cascade 80 made by Penn Plax), small live plants, and natural rocks with epoxy coating. I also changed the water as much as once a week, but I didn't mess with it when the water was clear.
I am open to any suggestions. I am so frustrated with this tank. I have several other tanks including 2 10 gallon tanks. This tank is the only one with different types of fish. The 1 10 gallon tank has goldfish and my first plecostomus in it. All the other tanks have bettas in them. Does anybody have any ideas? The only other thing I could do (that I can think of), other than giving up, is to change the rock and I would have to take the fish out for that. Please Help!!!

[mr gerbil]

Ok, firstly... you are overstocked. A ten gallon tank isn't really big enough for a pleco, especially when there are lots of other fish in it at the same time.
Plecos are tropical fish, goldfish are coldwater fish. They really can't live together very well. Also, how many goldfish do you have in the 10g?

Hopefully someone here can give you some better advice than I have, but good luck anyway.

[Maddog]

neons are pretty non-hardy. they are very sensitive to pH changes, so maybe you should try some different fish if you happen to lose the rest of these...also, fewer fish. 1" of fish per gallon is a good rule to go by. also, doing a full water change is not too good as it restarts the whole cycle (gets rid of all the good bacteria that fish need to live) instead of doing water changes only when the water is cloudy, do regular water changes to prevent the water from getting cloudy. i do 20% every week. as for your remaining fish, i wouldn't add anymore, you are pretty much at max as you are now. maybe someone else can offer other suggestions, thats all i've got for nwo. hope everything works out for you

[dandelion8]

Yup, 1" of fish per gallon is the rule. So you could have 10 one-inch fish... or 2 five-inch fish... Make sure you look at their maximum length and use that as your measurement.

It takes about a month for the "good" bacteria to build up in a tank. Until this point, the ammonia levels (and nitrates, nitrites) will spike and take a while to come down. The more fish you add, the worse the ammonia gets.

Goldfish tend to produce more ammonia than other fish. Having goldfish in there is only going to add to the waste problem. Also, goldsfish like colder water than tropical fish. Depending on the water temperature, somebody is getting stressed out. (tropical fish prefer 74 - 82*F; goldfish prefer 68 - 72*F)

Hope this helps a little and good luck! :)

[ChillaBabi]

Ok, i'm pretty new at this too...but i think that 12 neaons was all u really needed in a 10 gallon tank, and you shouldnt have gotten any more. Alos, i read that a pleco could get over a foot long... just thought i'd say...

[dhall50]

Okay. Before starting something you should educate yourself! You killed your fish by having too many too soon. Learn what the cycling process is. Dont just know of it, understand it. When you start a tank regardless of size, you start out slow with few fish. You dont change your water for a minimum of a month. Make sure you have proper filtration too. As for the 1 inch of fish per gallon of water rule. Get rid of that right now. It only works on fish that get to be 1 inch total. I dont care who you are, if you have 2 five inch fish in a 10 gallon or a 10 inch oscar in a 10 gallon then you are an idiot. Just because something can live a certain way doesnt mean that it should. For example, i could raise a human in a six foot by six foot cube their entire life. But how healthey and happy would they be?

[gizmo pig]

Dhall hit the nail on the head.....twice.

First of all, you need to cycle your tank. Add some fish food to an empty tank. Soon the water will display signs of amonnia. Then, it will convert to nitrates, then nitrites. This will take several weeks, and you need a testing kit for this. Second of all, 1in. per gallon is outdated. It does not accound that 1 10" fish produces more waste than 10 1" fish. And the max. size fish you can have in a 10 gallon is about 2 - 3". The plecos and the goldfish are both too large. As previously stated, they need different temperatures. Here is the stocking list you should have for your 10 gallon:

2 dwarf gouramis
6 neon tetras
6 cories

Don't add them all at once. I'd add the fish by 2s and 3s. Be sure to give a week or between each addition and allow the water to balance itself out. Fishkeeping is and art and a hobby and it is certainly not something you want to rush.

[ars4986]

Ok. I have tried that... My mom doesn't understand why:
When I started this tank, I had 12 neons and one small plecostomus. That was not added all at the same time. Then, after a while, it got cloudy then my fish started dying. When I was down several fish, I added more. I did not add all the fish at one time.
When my mom was a kid, she had aqauriums. 10 gallon tanks with alot more than I have had combined in a tank together. She said she had one plecostomus, 2 catfish, and about 10 big angel fish (in a 10 gallon tank) and the tank was crystal clear and she never had to clean it.
She wants to know how my tank is so different from then, that I can not have any more than 10 inches of fish in a 10 gallon tank. And have this many problems.

[Jennicat]

Honestly, I don't know how your mother managed to cram all those fish into a 10 gallon tank. To me that borders on animal abuse. Unless she had pygmys, a quick search shows that angelfish can get up to 10" long. Plecos can get to be enormous. I don't even want to think how horrific it was for those fish. Average lifespan for an angelfish is 10 years or more... how long did her fish live?

To me, that falls into the "but I've done it my entire life and it's always worked" catagory. Just because something can be done doesn't mean that it should. People can live in boxes on the street and survive, but that's really not their optimum habitat, is it?

[cee219]

First off, for your mother, Angelfish tanks minimum size is a 29 gallon, with about five gallons per Angelfish. So that many Angelfish in a ten gallon just blows my mind. Some people get lucky and don't have problems with virtually overstocking fish tanks, but it isn't worth the risk.

Plecos shouldn't be used in a 10 gallon. You can use this catfish called Otos, but they need a well established, well cycled tank. They are sensitive. I'm assuming you didn't cycle - this is the most important part ever in setting up a tank. Please research this in depth.

This has been stressed on this post quite a bit but add fish SLOWLY. I also wouldn't full recommend neons as a beginner fish, they can be sensitive to rapid changes in water. Don't do huge water changes with them. I prefer doing small, frequent water changes with sensitive fish. Zebra Danios are nice fish, they are about 2" in length. They are super hardy, 10 gallons may be a little cramped though. They are one of my fave fishies.

Cory Cats do best in groups. That is hard to accomplish in a small tank I know, but you may have to cut down on other fish. Gizmo Pig's stocking suggestion is great, follow that slowly and you'll be in great shape. I would also do some heavy searching for pygmy cories, they are tiny corydorases and just the cutest things ever.

If you don't have it on hand yet, please buy Ammonia test strips, Nitrite test strips, and Nitrate test strips to test your water.

I myself just got out of the newbie stage for aquariums, so if you have any problems/questions - please ask :)!

[ars4986]

I think I have that tank figured out. I have only lost 2 neons. Which is good. In another tank, I used to have 3 powder blue gouramis. One come to find out had a bad eye (I think he was blind in one eye). Apparently, the other two gouramis picked on that one and would come up on its blind side and would bite his eye. We never noticed because the one would be in the corner where you could not see his eye. We believe that those to pain in the butts ate he eye out. He now has just a socket. I put him in another tank so he would be by himself. But, now he has a flesh color bubblewhere his eye was and it keeps getting bigger. Do any of you know something I should give him to help him heal? Or should I leave it alone (that bubble being part of his healing process). I dont know if that would be considered popeye or not. I have Melafix and Maroxy on hand and would like to know if I should try and pick up something else also.

[shev]

holy crap. let your mother read this page, the only way she could of kept angel fish in a 10 gallon is if she did many many water changes, or just let their growth be horribly stunted. it is no different than back then, its still just as terrible. What exactly does your mom not understand? I'd love to explain it to her.

sorry, everyone has already said this, but just to recap:

did you ever cycle your tank? When you add many more fish there isnt enough bacteria in the tank to convert all of the extra amonia into nitrites, then into nitrates, thats called a mini-cycle. nitrites and amonia are very bad for fish. you obviously dont have your tank completely cycled, when they water clouds it means there is a spike in nitrites, this, or a bacterial bloom from excess nutrients (I.E. fish waste and overfeeding fish food) plecostomus produce A LOT of waste, and will keep making more as they grow. as said before they will get MUCH too large for a 10 gallon.

when your fish are dying, stop getting more until you fix the problem. do weekly 20% water changes to remove all the fish waste and nitrates.

It sounds like your gourami has a bacterial infection where his eye was pulled out. use an antibacterial medicine, like melafix. gouramis can be mean, especially if you have more than one male in a tiny tank. gouramis are in the same family as bettas, anabanitdae = can be mean. luckily gouramis can cope with the poor water conditions better than the other fish because they use a labyrinth organ enabling them to breathe air. corydoras also can breathe air by using their intestine. but the neon tetras are pretty sensitive to water conditions, and PH.

If I were you, I'd take out the gouramis, take out the pleco, and take out the corydoras. Just have some neons, and keep the tank clean.

when the fish died, what did they look like? bloated, floating, slimy, or on the bottom? you may even have a disease, but probably just a bacterial problems from poor water conditions.

[Peace]

Please, give it up. The 1" per gallon rule is just for the new people at fish keeping. I don't think she is.

[PeekABlue]

I have 5 silver dollars (Larger fish) one male betta and 2 algea eaters in my 29 gallon tank. I think its a bit crowded as it stands right now, i can never imagine having 10 tetras and a pleco (is it) or even that many angel fish!!

I started out with 3 silver dollars and 3 angel fish, that about the max for a 29 gallon, those poor fisheys in the 10 gallon :(

(As a child i was only aloud to have 4 goldfish in one 10gal tank, i guess i was taught early :S)

[mr gerbil]

As a child i was only aloud to have 4 goldfish in one 10gal tank, i guess i was taught early :S)

Actually, most would consider 10gal to be too small for even one goldfish. An adult needs a lot of space- a pond is ideal.

Good goldfish tank size? I'd seriously consider 100 gallons as being a minimum for the common goldfish. Comets need more.
Smaller fancy goldfish don't need so much space of course, but it's still useful...

[PeekABlue]

The goldfish we used to have were considered feeders for larger fish. They were tiny little things, never grew to be much size. I always wanted one of the colorfull goldfish, the ones who are white and orange, sometimes black too. My goldfish lived for 5 years, which i thaught was pretty good.


And do you mean 100gal for 4 goldfish? I do find that quite harsh, but as i say with ferrets and rats, bigger homes are always better. Fishey desearves this too i guesss!

[Jennicat]

Average lifespan of goldfish is around 20 years.

[Maddog]

And do you mean 100gal for 4 goldfish? I do find that quite harsh, but as i say with ferrets and rats, bigger homes are always better. Fishey desearves this too i guesss!

well the thing about goldfish is that they produce ALOT of waste, and they can grow pretty large, so they need alot of room to accomodate that.

[shev]

I'd say 20 gallons per goldfish would be good. PeekABlue, they didnt grow very large because their growth was stunted. but I guess that is a little better than being eaten, right?

[armymedic]

Everyone thinks that neons are such great fish to have in a tropical tank, and they can be very nice in groups, but they aren't very hardy. And a 10 gal tank fluctuates water temperature and chemistry much more rapidly than a larger tank. Larger tanks tend to be more forgiving.

Cycle the tank, not with neons. Since you already have some fish, just keep them in there. Do a 1/4-1/3 water change every week. If you wait until the water gets cloudy it is too late, and you are already geting behind the 8-ball.

And you don't "need" a pleco in a 10 gal tank. I had one in mine for a little while, but I quickly moved him into my 55 gal.

For a nice, simple 10 gal set up:

1-2 small gouramis. More than that can be trouble.
4 pygmi cories.
3 black skirt tetras.

I have a 10 gal with a betta and some neons. It looks very nice.

[cee219]

I personally hate small tanks. They are little disasters, spend the money and get at least a 20 or 29 gallon. It saves alot of headaches and time. I have a ten gallon and I have more problems with my fish there then in my 55 gallon tank so I ended up retiring it to a QT tank/Hospital tank. It's so less stressful

100g for 4 goldfish does seem like alot. Don't get me wrong - I like goldies but if I had a 100g tank I can think of better things I'd like to do then have four goldfish. I agree that they do grow big and they can live a long time, so in the end it's always best to give your goldies the best home you can.