justa 'lil canter question..

[lovechick]

we're doing canter now, and we're starting with just 2-point canter for now, then sitting one, my question is when I canter at 2-point I hold the mane and the reins with both hands, and I'm having hard time stopping the horse after it starts cantering fast, I pull back but its hard since both of my hands are taken...

Any advice?

[Brown]

Phew lovechick! I think you are improving on your horse riding. I have no experience with them before. The only time i sat on one was many years back in a zoo!! :lol:

Maybe you can post a picture of yourself sitting on your horse during your lesson? Get a friend to take for you? ;) I sure love to see some greats pictures!!

[PyscoFalcon]

What do you mean by 2-point canter.

You sit to the canter - hold on to the saddle with 1 hand if you need to and both reins in the other.

When slowing down or stopping sit really deep in the saddle and put all your weight back and gently squeeze the reins.



The only other way to canter is cross country style - standing up and leaning forwards with hands on either side of neck.

To slow down and stop in this position do the same, sit back down in the saddle and put all you weight down.

The less weight on a horses back the faster they go.

[Nevertoomany]

If you need to lean on the mane you are not ready to canter.

It means you don't have the strength in your leg or the balance to do a "2 point" canter.

WHY you would want to do this is beyond me but.....

You should NOT hold onto the saddle either. You should be able to control the speed of your horse using your weight as PyscoFalcon has said.
The deeper you sit the slower your horse should go.

Doing a "2 point" canter is also called being ahead of your horses motion. This is how you get hurt. You should NEVER be ahead of the motion of your horse. If you watch Olympic riders they are not leaning forwaard but straight up when they are cantering . The ONLY time you want to be in a 2 point is after your hose has taken off and before it lands. Otherwise you are ahead of the motion and that is NOT good.

[MagnoliaFly]

I can understand practicing two point canter to prepare to jump at a canter. I did, but yes you should be able to already balance regularly in the seat at the canter and slow/stop your horse without pulling on the reins.
If you sit deeply in the saddle and put all your weight into it instead of having that foward seat it WILL slow down your horse as it unbalances it and causes it to compensate. This should be one of the first things learned at the canter instead of pulling on the reins (which sometimes pisses off the horse and makes it go faster instead of stop).

You need to learn to give your horse enough rein so when it canters it doesnt get jerked in the mouth because your hanging on so tight. Have your trainer (or an advanced friend) lunge you at the canter without reins for a while so you can get used to balancing on your own and not on the horses mouth.

[lovechick]

the 2 point canter is used by all beginners, then we learn half-seat,the teacher is very experienced and knows what to do so I'm pretty sure she's right. but its still hard for me to sit back when in full speed cause I'm afraid I'm leaning to far off and might fall off.
Thanks for advice, I hope to get better..

As for the pics Brown I dont have any of me in action, cause I have lessons at night and the pictures come out really dark plus my scanner is crazy!!lol but here are few

~Me and current horsey I ride "Bayman"
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/2281b133/bc/horseback+riding/me+and+my+man.jpg?bc7sld.ApmYxVkrE

~Me near the outdoor arena
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/2281b133/bc/horseback+riding/me+near+the+arena.jpg?bc7sld.ANFUEUvRn

~and me on Badger(the turtle horse, so slooow but so lovable)
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/2281b133/bc/horseback+riding/me+on+Badger.jpg?bc7sld.AypFS1syj

[Chelsea20]

Just because a rider learns to canter by using the 2 point or jumping position and holding mane does not mean he or she is not ready to begin to canter especially if he or she is being taught by a good instructor.

This is in reply to the "anti 2-point" post. The information in that post is incorrect. 2-pointing is the way that many beginners learn to canter (they later move to the sitting position) and it is a very proven and effective method. One reason it is so popular is b/c when people learn to canter sitting straight away, many of them are too stiff in their lower backs to follow the motion and not get bounced around (leading to an irritated horse and maybe even a fall). 2 point is effective because it helps beginners to keep their weight in their heels and not to become unbalanced by the horse's movement. It stengthen's the rider, gets he or she used to the cantering motion and keeps and unsteady rider from pounding on the horse's back. Holding onto a bit of mane and putting weight that the leg is not yet strong enough to support also steadies the rider and keeps him or her from hitting the horse in the back or mouth if the rider looses balance. Holding a piece of mane also prevents the rider from balancing on the horse's mouth.

2 point or jumping position in no way puts you ahead of the motion. As with sitting in the saddle you are (should be) centered over your horse while in the 2 point position. Therefore you are with the motion. If you get ahead of the motion at the 2 point it is b/c your leg has slipped back behind the girth pushing your upper body forward (then you would be ahead of the motion).

As for Olympic riders staying out of the 2 point position-that's not true! Olympic riders 2 point whenever they need to free up their horses backs, over fences, or galloping on a cross country course (I think this is nomally in more of a half-seat) and so on. They are effective riders in a 2 point or otherwise.

As for slowing down advice (if you chose to read this far) you should be able eventually to do most things at the 2 point that you can from the sitting position. BUT-beginner riders do not yet have this strength (normally anyway). So here is my advice:
1. Before you slow or stop, prepare yourself: shorten your reins, sink into your heels and bring your shoulders back.
2. Slowly sink into your saddle (the key word is "sink"). Try to think of sinking straight down into the saddle keeping your legs and heels in the correct position. (your horse should be slowing a bit by now)
3. Squeeze your reigns.
It is best to practice transitions (moving from one gait to another) while you are organized. Try not to wait until you absolutely have to to ask your horse to slow down (don't wait until you are unbalanced).

Of course, as you continue riding this will get easier and easier-one day it will just be second-nature.
Good luck with your lessons. I hope you are having fun.
Chelsea:D

[Chelsea20]

Another thing:
If the only time you ever 2 point is from take off to landing how can you possibly have a strong enough 2 point to be stable in the air while jumping? How would you be steady enough not to fall back in the saddle during the jump and during landing? A 2 point must be practiced.
Chelsea again
A frequent exercise at my trainer's barn (I think it is her favorite thing to make us do) is 2 point w/out stirrups walking, troting, cantering and jumping.

[PyscoFalcon]

Okay let me get my head around the "american terms" :agree:

So what you mean by 2-point canter is our galloping position?

The normal way we canter is by sitting deep in the saddle. We only raise out of the saddle when galloping (racing position) and going over the jump. (Jumping position)

We learn the jumping position first by trotting over poles.

Phew! I will understand soon - honest! :D

[Chelsea20]

yes exactly, it is the galloping position, jumping position etc. (all modified a little by what you are doing of course). Basically it just means your seat is out of the saddle-you only have "2 points" of contact with the saddle - both your legs. People call it a bunch of different things.
Chels

[Mitchandozzie]

i cant see the pics......:bawling: :bawling:

[lovechick]

yeah, I dunno whats wrong, 1st i can see, then I cant...

lets try again
P.S the pics are bad, hate my scanner..lol

if u still cant see might wanna look at my album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/estigirl16

where it says horseback riding,,,

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/2281b133/bc/horseback+riding/me+and+my+man.jpg?bc_xOg.Ab4czVkrE

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/2281b133/bc/horseback+riding/me+near+the+arena.jpg?bcwzOg.AZz8dUvRn

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/2281b133/bc/horseback+riding/me+on+Badger.jpg?bcy0Og.Acjue1syj

[PyscoFalcon]

Ah right. Thanx for clearing that up. :D

[GuineaPigGrrrl]

Hmm. I work at a equine therapy camp where they learn how to trot in 2-point first, mainly because it is easier on the horses back and it is smoother for them well they get the feel of the horse still. Anyways, maybe that is why your coach is teaching you that way first, in the long run it doesn't matter you have to be good at both. Now what you have to work on is getting the feel off the horses canter so that you can go with him, and move almost as one. Every time you feel the canter move up move your hands just a little up and then down again this with help you with the rythm remember to keep your eyes up and hold onto the mane just as much as you need to, but also try to let go and let your body move with the horse just as much and soon more. You'll find when you sit way back down in the saddle you will be able to stop easier, that is also a cue for the horse so that he knows to slow down, make sure you use some pressure with the reins too. Relax and talk to your horse, use vocal comands. I really hope that helped.
CJ

[appaloosahunter]

actually, i'm quite suprised i have to say this - apparently all of you guys do eventing or show jumping and know nothing about the hunter/jumper aspect of riding, either that or you ride hunters terribly wrong.

anyway not meaning to sound mean, this is my first post and i don't want to have a bunch of enemies my first time here, but i just have to say this.

hunters canter in a half-seat/2 point! okay now that ya'll know that you can get past the fact that your telling her she's not ready to canter, because she could definintly be ready.

also, putting your hands in the horses mane is what a lot of experienced riders do. i have several friends who compete on the 'A' circuit hunters and they hold onto their horses mane so as not to yank back on their mouth if something happens.

however, your right in one aspect - she should be able to ride without her hands in his mane - WHEN she gets more experienced. until then she just needs to be able to sit back and make a slow transition, pulling back SLIGHTLY after she has sat back deep and straight in the saddle.

[MagnoliaFly]

I remember having a conversation with my trainer (who has judged many A rated hunter shows) and talking about the new style of "perching" while cantering. Just because "perching" is in style and has been the last few show seasons does not mean it is proper equitation. I've never known a person in a hunter class to score high by riding around in two-point the entire time. Thats ridiculous. It shows that they cannot ride properly, fluidly and in balance with the horse at the canter and that they do not belong in a show ring.

Two-point at the canter is an important training tool though, teaching you to lengthen your back and not hollow it out, to stretch your calf muscle and keep your heel down, and to keep your leg on the horse at all times.

A canter seat should be forward, not perched. Learning a sitting trot beforehand helps in this position.

Of course it may be different where you come from.

[Ballydoyle]

Well, i would suggest sitting to the canter when you are just starting, and later moving on to two-point. even though it is tough, i suggest trying to ride without stirrups at first. when you need to slow down your horse, put slight pull back pressure on the reins, at the same time as easing yourself back in the saddle, which by the laws of physics will force your horse to slow down!
happy riding,
Taylor

[Shemmyboy]

I do 2point canter all the time... It is SO fun! My pony loves to run and jump, so it really becomes useful. I don't know about you guys, but you're not gonna reason me out of doing it. I think once you have developed enough muscle, you can do this, but try the usual canter first, beginners. Get that down before you attempt this!:D

[jj jumper]

Just because a rider learns to canter by using the 2 point or jumping position and holding mane does not mean he or she is not ready to begin to canter especially if he or she is being taught by a good instructor.

This is in reply to the "anti 2-point" post. The information in that post is incorrect. 2-pointing is the way that many beginners learn to canter (they later move to the sitting position) and it is a very proven and effective method. One reason it is so popular is b/c when people learn to canter sitting straight away, many of them are too stiff in their lower backs to follow the motion and not get bounced around (leading to an irritated horse and maybe even a fall). 2 point is effective because it helps beginners to keep their weight in their heels and not to become unbalanced by the horse's movement. It stengthen's the rider, gets he or she used to the cantering motion and keeps and unsteady rider from pounding on the horse's back. Holding onto a bit of mane and putting weight that the leg is not yet strong enough to support also steadies the rider and keeps him or her from hitting the horse in the back or mouth if the rider looses balance. Holding a piece of mane also prevents the rider from balancing on the horse's mouth.

2 point or jumping position in no way puts you ahead of the motion. As with sitting in the saddle you are (should be) centered over your horse while in the 2 point position. Therefore you are with the motion. If you get ahead of the motion at the 2 point it is b/c your leg has slipped back behind the girth pushing your upper body forward (then you would be ahead of the motion).

As for Olympic riders staying out of the 2 point position-that's not true! Olympic riders 2 point whenever they need to free up their horses backs, over fences, or galloping on a cross country course (I think this is nomally in more of a half-seat) and so on. They are effective riders in a 2 point or otherwise.

As for slowing down advice (if you chose to read this far) you should be able eventually to do most things at the 2 point that you can from the sitting position. BUT-beginner riders do not yet have this strength (normally anyway). So here is my advice:
1. Before you slow or stop, prepare yourself: shorten your reins, sink into your heels and bring your shoulders back.
2. Slowly sink into your saddle (the key word is "sink"). Try to think of sinking straight down into the saddle keeping your legs and heels in the correct position. (your horse should be slowing a bit by now)
3. Squeeze your reigns.
It is best to practice transitions (moving from one gait to another) while you are organized. Try not to wait until you absolutely have to to ask your horse to slow down (don't wait until you are unbalanced).

Of course, as you continue riding this will get easier and easier-one day it will just be second-nature.
Good luck with your lessons. I hope you are having fun.
Chelsea:D
From jj jumper: AMEN

[HollyGirl]

i think we can all agree to disagree a bit about this. it changes from barn to barn. we teach a sitting canter for a few strides to begin with. most importantly, we discuss before hand what it's going to feel like and ways to help make it smoother... then after each canter attempt we discuss ways to make it better. doesn't have to be lengthy. we also practice two pointing at the canter (and no, it's NOT getting ahead of the motion). it's amazing how much two pointing helps a riders legs. in the hunter ring you CAN get out of the saddle if it helps the horse... but typically you're going to sit it. There's only one horse i've shown that i needed to two point with at the canter in the ring and it's because he needed extra encouragement to stay forward.

[RabbitMage]

Um..this thread was started over three years ago, Hollygirl. I don't think any of the original posters are still reading.

[HollyGirl]

So? If someone finds this question and its answers relevent to their situation, they can still use it... Forums are used to discuss things and it doesn't just have to help the original poster.