My oldest rat has no energy!

[hollywilly]

I feel like if it isn't one problem, it's another. Joey, my oldest rat, is about 15 months old and doesn't seem to have any energy these days. He still has a pretty good appetite, grooms himself and his companion, but then sleeps the rest of the day. At first I thought that this was because he had gotten a little overweight so I put him on an Oxbow and fruit and veggies diet--no junk food. I also took him outside to run around every night to keep him in shape. Lately though, he doesn't seem to want to do anything. He doesn't look hunched over and his fur isn't rough so there aren't any blaring clues to a sudden illness. He is on Baytril because he is suceptible to respiratory infections. Unfortunately his sneezing hasn't gone away completely while on it and every once in a while I feel like I hear him wheezing--but I could just be paranoid (I'm really paranoid about the respiratory problems). He used to have a lot of energy and curiosity about him, but not in the last three weeks or so. Is this old age coming on or is there some other underlying problem here that I'm missing. I'm going to take him to the vet soon, but I was hoping you guys could give me some thoughts or experiences you've had with your rats that may help me and the vet figure this out.

[Ruthie]

It could be old age, but one thing I have learned, and had to learn the hard way, is to always always ALWAYS follow your instinct.
If something is telling you that there's something abnormal about his behavior by all means, call your vet and talk to him or her about it, and make an appointment if necessary.

[Babyblue]

Could it possibly be that he's finally calming down and becoming a big squishy lazy boy? I can't say personally cuz none of my boys seem to realize that they're supposed to be big squishy and lazy couch potatoes :P

But I agree with Ruthie, go with your gut feeling, take him in for a check up anyways. If anything for your peace of mind :)

[hollywilly]

Thank you guys. What would I do without my fellow rattie parents to help me out. Hopefully it is just old age, he definitely is squishy--fun to hold. I'm going to the vet on Tuesday for a checkup and hopefully we won't find anything wrong. Have any of you ever had experience with any heart conditions in your rats? It's something I want to bring up with my vet because of his chronic respiratory problems but I honestly don't know much if anything about it. Just curious--thanks again you guys, your the best.

[Ruthie]

In answer to your question, oh yeah.
I've had to put down 2 rats because of severe heart disease, and one died of a massive heart attack.

So, lets see, signs....breathing looks concaved. As in it goes in and out *deeply*, not necessarily rapid. This is especially noticeable near the middle of their spine on the sides.

Extremities are cooler than usual, and sometimes (not always) are a blue color.

They get tired easily. As in, they'll play, and then suddenly stop and rest, sometimes on their side.

They tend to like to have their heads propped up on something, especially if it's more advanced.

Signs of a heart attack. Concaved breathing only very rapid and very deep.
Extremities are cold, and often blue, especially the feet.
They can't breathe. They gasp for air and make this clicky breathing sound kinda like when someone is having an asthma attack. This lasts for HOURS sometimes. I remember Dexter having 3 heart attacks before the final one (13 hours long) made him go into cardiac arrest. You'll think they'll die in your hands, but often they won't. Usually they'll bounce back after the first one.
Of course it's best to catch the heart disease before they have a heart attack.

Meds: Lasix is a diaretic, and Enacard which works on the actual heart. Depending on the severity of the heart disease you may or may not need Enacard. They work wonders. We'll use my Dexter as an example again. When he was alive and on the meds, it was like having my old rat back to his old self again. It was great.

[Babyblue]

I haven't had to deal with heart problems yet so I have no advice on that, sorry.

I'm just curious, you said he's had chronic respiratory problems. What antibiotics has he been on, how often, etc. I also have a rat with chronic respiratory issues but she's been fine for months now that my new vet gave me a different antibiotics. Just wondering...

[hollywilly]

So now I have to wonder if Joey is suffering from heart problems or just chronic respiratory issues. As far as anitbiotics go Joey and Scamper are both on Baytril right now. This is Joey's second round of Baytril. He first went on it in December with his brother Smokey (recently passed away:bawling: ). Then he developed an inner ear infection which actually turned out to be an abscess in his ear canal. Our vet took a picture of it and let us see, it was amazing. For that he was on a three week course of Chloremphenicol every eight hours, which worked wonders. They flavored it chicken at the pharmacy and our rat actually took it without complaints--I didn't know they would do that. Then he was still sneezing like mad and went on Doxycycline, which worked okay but afterwards we put him on Baytril again because he began to lightly wheeze every once in a while. I would love to know what your vet gave you that worked so well. My complaint is that no matter what antibiotic I give that rats, they seem to get better at first but then towards the end of the treatment the progress seems to stall. Has anyone else had this problem as well.

As far as Joey's condition I think I will definitely talk to the vet about possible heart conditions. Lately he doesn't exercise that much and when he does he has to take a break and lay down--not good. He also looks like he's gained a bunch of weight. I just love this little guy so much and want him to be his old self again. Wish me luck.

By the way my sister had a rat named Dexter as well. He was the most awesome little guy. We miss him dearly.

[Babyblue]

I know many people have had lots of success with Batril and Doxy combo. My Biscuit went from Tetracycline (stupid vet), Batril, Batril/Doxy, then finally Zithromax. She's been sick since she was 3 mos old, has been on and off on antibiotics ever since, and every time it'll go away for a few weeks after the round of meds then come straight back, usually worse than before. Finally my new vet gave her Zithromax, which I have found is supposed to be "stronger", and she has not had a problem for a few months now. Unfortunately she has permanent lung damage, and makes various noises ocassionally, but other than that she's just a sweetie who loves life and everyone else in it :)

Each situation is different and needs different treatment, so hopefully you can figure out what works for Joey. Just wanted to let you know that things CAN get better. My poor Biscuit's the proof :)

[Ruthie]

For all we know, it's a combination between respiratory and heart disease. Often times, when the heart is stressed, the rat gets stressed, and a respiratory flare up occurs.

Let us know what the vet says, okay?

[hollywilly]

Zithromax? Never heard of it. Thank you for all of the info. It really helps going to the vet already prepared with some ideas of your own. Hopefully Joey will have the same success as Biscuit. How did you know she had permanent lung damage? I always wonder about Joey. He's pretty much been a sneezer since he joined our family. Has anyone ever had a rat that never completely stopped sneezing? And if Babyblue is reading this, what antibiotic did your vet give you that you had such great success with? I definitely have more hope for Joey now than I did a few days ago. I don't think I can thank you guys enough.

[Ruthie]

Yes, I've had rats who just sneeze everyday, but not like 10 times in a row. But just the occasional sneeze every day.

Now I can't remember what else I was gonna say. >.<

[Ratlady]

My little guy, Draco, was on Lasix for months with his heart disease, and it really helped him.
I wonder if your rat is starting to lose any mobility in his back legs? It's quite common in males and I've nursed many a disabled old rat with this problem. There are lots of things you can do to make life easy for him. It may also be that he's just chilling out and becoming a lazy old boy!

[hollywilly]

Okay everyone, here is the update. Joey went to the vet and had a x-ray done on his chest to see his heart and it was enlarged. Isn't it funny how you just know in your heart when something isn't right? No pun intended. Well this all makes sense now and his symptoms are obvious to me now. My vet has never had a rat with heart problems, so this is all new to her. The vet that has years of experience is on vacation until monday and she wants to consult with him before putting Joey on a program. I appreciate when she honestly tells me that she doesn't know what to do. Joey is on Lasix at the moment to help with the fluid buildup. He spent the night at the vet to be monitered, which makes mommy very sad--as well as Scamper. I'm picking him up today and bringing in all of the information I can find on rats with heart failure for my vet. I'm beginning to understand that this problem may be going undiagnosed for many rats and am very glad to help educate our vets. Hopefully other ratties in our area will benefit from Joey's experience's as well as Joey himself.

[Ratlady]

I'm sorry to hear that. If you, or your vet, would like to contact my vet I can give you his number. He's one of the top rattie vets in the Uk and is always willing to talk to people on the phone. He looks after all the rescue rats I have had over many years. He's wonderful.
Please email for details if you'd like to give him a call
ratlady@aol.com
I hope all goes well for you both. We're thinking of you.

[Ruthie]

Thanks for the update.

I think you're right that most rats are probably misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all when it comes to heart problems. The interesting thing is that it is a fairly common thing to have happen in older rats.

I am lucky and I now have a vet who's very clueful, and is familiar with this condition in rats. Now I can almost always tell when a rat has a heart problem.