Urgent Help!! All my fish are sick!

[Mousse66]

This is a terrible situation. First my betta fish gets sick after a water change. I think it went into shock or something. It hasn't eaten in like 2 weeks (wow still alive?) and appears to have lost its color and sight. To make matters worse the water got really dirty in the betta fish tank so my idiot brother poured the betta fish water into my goldfish tank!!! After a couple of days my goldfish and pleco got sick/ acting irregular. All they do is hide in the pleco cave and their fins are never spread like before. They still eat like pigs but most of the time their really inactive just hiding in the cave. The pleco also usually hangs upside down but now just stays on the floor of the other cave. What should i do??? and whats wrong with my fish? Already i know one fish is close to death as its leaning side ways. I already tried fungus eliminator but it's not working... sigh i need help i don't want all my fish to die!

[Tawnishka]

What did you treat the betta's water with last time you cleaned his tank? Is it possible that any other sort of chemical got into his water on accident? I suggest you change the water ASAP if you haven't yet!

If you left your betta's food floating in the tank and he refused to eat, please say that you removed the food. Depending on which you have, it can totally make the water go bad in a short time.

[mallyrk]

Do you have a test kit?? That is something very useful to have when you have fish tanks..

If you don't have one, go buy one or some petstores will test water for free or a small fee. I recommend doing so ASAP. Ammonia, Nitrates, & Nitrites should read zero. PH should be around 7.0.

[mr gerbil]

1. Get the tank water tested. In the next hour or so.
2. Get all the fish into another tank. If you haven't got another tank or pond, a plastic container or bucket will do (put the filter in there with them, but clean it). Add bio-spira or cycle.

What size tank are the goldfish/pleco in?

[Mousse66]

Well I have significantly larger tank setup as well. But the problem is i have a very agressive African Cichilid and enormous pleco in the other tank. My goldfish and small pleco wouldn't stand a chance. i guess i could take a sample of the water and go to the nearest pet store. But if i move the fish into another tank, would they infect the other fish? Would they be out of shock? Thx for the replies.

[Mousse66]

I'm also thinking about moving my small pleco into the larger tank (approx.40 gal) but i'm scared if it won't solve anything, the other fish will be infected and will the MUCH larger pleco attack it?

[mr gerbil]

Are the fish showing any external disease symptoms? Get the water tested- because seriously, every minute does count.
How big is the tank they're in now? Goldfish eventually need a 100 gallon tank or larger, and plecos require something similar. I'd also recommend keeping the golds in a coldwater tank, and the pleco in a tropical tank.

[mr gerbil]

double post...

[Nell]

You're going to need to be much more specific if you want a chance at solving this problem.

1. How big is the tank? and how long has it been set up?
2. What are the water parameters? ph? ammonia? nitrite? nitrate?
I'f you don't have test kits, you need to go out and buy them. Just taking a water sample to the local fish store is not good enough when we need specifics. If you have several tanks already I don't know how you could have gotten by without them up until now.
If you have a Petsmart near you, print out THIS PAGE (http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444177 6772&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030152&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&bmUID=1137174572202) and bring it into the store and they will give you the $15 price for the master test kit.

3. When was the last water change and gravel vac?
4. When did the fish first start showing symptoms of sickness?
5. Describe, in detail, their physical appearence and behavior: clamped fins? torn or frayed fins? spots on body? fungus?, lethargy, swimming on side? etc.
6. How long have you had the fish? Are any of them new?
7. Have you added any medications/chemicals? What kinds and when?

Absolutely do not move the fish into another tank that already has fish. If they have a communicable disease, it will spread it to the other tank. Since all the fish in the tank are showing the same symptoms, I see no point in quarentining them. Until we know more, I'd suggest doing a 50% water change and see if that makes things improve.

[Mousse66]

ok i just tested my goldfish tank (approx. 10 gallons) for pH abnormalities and its at a perfect 7. My 4 goldfish are pretty small avg. 2.5 inches. So 2 of my wish are ok rite now. But my Black Moore is suffering from what appears to be fin rot and my goldfish has some sort of internal bleeding visible in the scales and fins (bacterial hemorrhagic septicemia?). I bought capsules that treat the disease but once i'm sure i'll put it in. I removed my small pleco and put it into the larger tank 50 gal. and its condition improved yet the larger pleco is acting irregular, and the African cichilid is doing fine still. I'll double check the testing the waters and thx for helping everyone!

[Mousse66]

I've had the fish tank for quite a while now, about 2 years, with the same fish. I just bought a gravel vac and my pleco is in the warmer larger tank. I added a few drops of fungus eliminator prior to but it had no effect. The conditions of 2 of the goldfish improved yet the other two mentioned before is what worries me. I do water changes about once every two weeks 20% change.

[Shrelana]

I'm not sure if it's already been said, but your goldfish need a much, much larger tank.... sorry to break it to you.

[Mousse66]

They're small!!!

[Shrelana]

but they are gonna get BIG... If they are not put in a bigger tank, their bodies will stop grwoing, but their insides will keep going until their organs rupture.....very painful death if you ask me. If I remember correctly, they can live for 30 to 40 years.....they can get up to 1 and a half feet in size. I'd recommend getting at least a 30 gallon tank for them for now, with eventual plans to get them a 55 to 100 gallon tank or pond.

[Nell]

Honestly I don't even know why you're thanking us because you haven't listened to anything we've said. You obviously have little knowledge of what you're doing, yet you won't take the advice of the people who know much more than you who are trying to help. You have taken a problem that could have probably been easily remedied and have created something 10 times worse.

One of my biggest points in my last post was ABSOLUTELY DO NOT move any of the ill fish into a tank with other fish, yet u did. If that fish is sick, it might now kill the other fish who would have otherwise been perfectly fine. If that fish improves just by moving it to the other tank, then the root of your problems lies with water quality (which I suspect is the case, anyway)
Keeping fish in a tank too small, inadequate filtration, and not keeping up with maintanance are all things that can lead to water quality problems, and water quality problems can lead to secondary bacterial infections, fungus and things like tail rot.

Goldfish need large tanks and very good filtration. A 10 gal tank with a small filter will not cut it for very long. A 2 yr old goldfish should not be small at all if it has been given the care and environment it needs. Even the smaller fancy varieties should be quite large and would never fit in a 10gal.

Additionally, adding medications without knowing what the problem actually is and what caused it can lead to much bigger problems. Antibacterial medications will kill your biological filter and make water quality problems even worse. The tank will have to cycle again and there's a good chance you will lose some of your fish unless you do a lot to fix the problem.
pH is only one of the things you need to monitor as far as water quality, and it is one of the least important of them. You need to get test kits for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite, as well. These are far more important than pH right now.

I am not trying to be mean, but I am sitting here hundreds of miles away practically pulling my hair out because I am trying to help you save your fish, but you won't even listen. These are the problems that I've seen people make over and over and its so frustration because I know where it eventually leads.
There is much more to keeping fish that you obviously don't know, so please help us help you by actually listening, taking our advice and hopefully learning something as well.

[mr gerbil]

Well said, Nell. Guess it's goldfish season again, lol.

[Shellie]

Awwwwwww, some of us actually learned something from you guys! I still believe the reason my son's fish have survived since Oct 28th is due to this forum. And they don't just survive, the little suckers are thriving!

[Mousse66]

sigh you guys are rite after these fish die a horrible death i'll never own fish again. I just figured I knew a lil something-something cause I kept them alive with no problem for 2 years. Its so stressful i want to give up. Nitrite, amonia? All these tests cost like 15$ each and the nearest pet store is like 40 mins away, especially in Toronto its freezing. I pet the pleco in the larger tank because

1. I thought it was water conditions strictly (not disease)
2.The pleco resembled how my friend's pleco looked before it died (out of its cave all the time very slow moving)
3. A larger tank would be better because it was warmer and had mosswood.

I so attached to my fish its sickening. I can't even have fun in NYC at New Year's because i'm worrying about them. This is so painful and stressful. But I know it'll make me a more responsible person in the future.

[Nell]

I am keeping my fingers crossed that we'll be able to save your fish. Don't give up hope yet. There are still plenty of things that can be done.

You still need to get test kits. Try ordering one online. You can usually get a master test kit for about $15 total this way.
What is the name of the medications that you added to the tank?

You haven't added any medications to the large tank, have you? If not, don't. Since you've already moved the smaller pleco, it would probably be best to keep him in the larger tank. Do a 20% water change and gravel vac in the larger tank and keep a close eye on the fish for any signs of unusual behavior or disease. Lets hope that the small pleco doesn't have any contagious infections and after both fish adjust to the change, they'll be alright.

As for the goldfish,
do a large water change today (50%). If you're sure you have the right medication for the problems you have, then keep treating.(If you have a carbon insert for the filter, you'll need to remove it.) It may be a good idea to get an ammonia absorbing pillow or granuals that can be used to help control ammonia until you are able to stop using the medications and reestablish your biological filter.
Since the pleco is no longer in the tank, you can add salt temporarily. Salt helps kill bacteria and parasites, helps fish heal, and makes medication more effective, but it can be harmful to some fish such as plecos and catfish. You can use aquarium salt or you can use NON-iodized table salt (the cheaper option). Most table salt contains iodine, but iodine is poisonous to fish. You can use salt labled "plain" or "non-iodized" Add 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water. Dissolve the salt first in a seperate container of water since if a salt granual lands on a fish it can burn. Salt should only be dosed once since it will not evaporate. When you do a water change, add only the amount of salt for the amount of water you removed from the tank. For instance, if you remove 2 gal of water, but have to use 3 gal to fill the tank again because some of the water evaporated, you should only add enough salt for 2 gal of water (2 tsp).

You are going to need to do very frequent water changes for a while, probably a 20% change every day hereafter for the next several days. You want your water quality in the best condition possible so the fish heal quickly, but you don't want to change too much of the water too often that it stresses the fish more.

You obviously care about these fish, but they can't stay in the 10 gal tank. The small tank is probably the root cause of all these problems, and will continue to cause problems if you keep them in there. You really should invest in at least a 29gal for them with a good filter, and they'll be much happier and healthier.

Is your betta still alive? how is he doing?

Please keep us updated every step of the way, so we can do our best to keep you headed in the right direction.

.

[Mousse66]

Sigh, I want to move all the goldfish to my much larger tank but the Cichilid would tear it to shreads.I'll get a larger tank over the weekend. I removed the carbon portion in the filter and have been treating the goldfish with capsules that "cure" bacterial and fin rot as well as the hemorrhagic septicemia (the red blotches under the scales.) As mentioned 2 goldfish now seem perfectly fine, but the Black Moore's fins are still "shreaded" and the redness has yet to die down. The instructions said everything should be fine by the 4th capsule and I just put the second one in. I'll do frequent water changes everyday. The fish in the 50 gal. as i feared are showing some signs of becoming lethargic. The African Cichilid is not as fast and reflexive when it "catches" flakes in the water. The small pleco i had previusly put in, just sucks on the walls all day and is very slow moving as well and avoids the cave i built it. The muh larger pleco also avoids its "normal" shelter and sucks on the wall near the same spot as the other pleco, its still fast as hell. I haven't added anything to the larger tank. All the fish still have no problem eating, they're very eager when they see me with the flakes in the hand.
My female Betta (the root of all this) is still alive. Its still shows a lack of energy however its starting to eat small portions again. I don't want to change its water, as i fear it'll get worse.
I'll try the non-iodized salt on wedesday night as i work at a grocery store and the nearest pet shop ( 40 mins walk) is also a rip off.
I definitely think its a disease via water contamination not the water parameters but i'll do the water changes to maintain healthy water conditions to be sure.
Thank you and I WILL take your advice.