Natural horsemanship

[Ballydoyle]

I wonder if any of you do natural horsemanship stuff, cause my whole barn does. i mean, there are like 6 saddles in the entire 16 horse barn, and i can't remember the last time i saw someone ride with a bit. i was just wantin to know what you think about nat. horsemanship, and if you do the whole pat parrelli/steve rother/monty roberts thing

[Ballydoyle]

hello, hello, anybody there? i think natural horsemanship is a need. when training a young horse to be ridden, and getting introduced to young foals, and just anytime, you need to communicate with horses just as another equine would talk to them. i recommend using the pat parelli seven games system. it is really wonderful!!!!!! talk to your 4-h leader or instructor/trainer about using natural horsemanship at your barn, and see how it will change your relationship with your horse forever. (only for the better)

[MagnoliaFly]

I totally agree. My whole barn went to a 2 day seminar in Georgia that Mr. Parelli taught and I nearly cried watching the things they did with horses. Sure it took years to get to that but man, that was so worth it.

Unfortunately shortly after that I started college and had to stop working with a horse at the barn on the system ( I had to stop lessons alltogether) but after college I plan on using the system with any horse I get. It is definately worth the money. The horse I was working with was doing great on the system and was progressing well. I had him free jumping, following me over jumps and playing most of the seven games on a 12 foot line. He was a very smart horse that would get bored easily in normal lessons, so this system was perfect to keep his interest.

Bareback riding (with or without the gripper pad) was really helpful in my hunter/jumper training too. It builds confidence and seat balance and I would recommend spending hours doing that on the lunge line and just in a normal snaffle bridle working on the bareback riding in a round pen/arena.

[lovechick]

is it a good idea to use bareback pad with stirrups? or will it cause sores?

[Ballydoyle]

MagnoliaFly- that is really great!! i would love to meet pat. he is such an amazing guy. and i loooove monty roberts

TO LOVECHICK- never ever ride bareback with stirrups!!!

[lovechick]

but its fine to use bareback pad with girth, right?

[Ballydoyle]

yes, you should use a girth with a bareback pad. it is pretty much a soft saddle without stirrrups!!

[MagnoliaFly]

Stirrups are unsafe on a bareback pad. And you have to use a girth otherwise the minute you get on you'll slip off the horse, pad and all. If you go to purchase a bareback pad and you see it advertised with stirrups dont buy it.

Suede is the best material to use if possible, it grips to jeans and breeches really well and helps with preparing you to ride padless. Though expensive, it lasts a long time. Pat Parelli has his students ride in suede bareback pads that were designed after rodeo saddles (he used to ride bucking bronc's before he started his program) so they are super sturdy and really comfy for both horse and rider.

[lovechick]

and do u know, how to buy a saddle for the horse? I know there are sizes like 16'' but I think its for people, how do u make sure it fits the horse right and it wont cause discomfort. and what is the average price for good english saddle with irons and all? is it a good idea to buy a saddle from Ebay?

[MagnoliaFly]

I've had a bad experience buying from ebay. Most of the "package" deals are cheap because the saddle is cheaply made and only worth 25-50 dollars and will only last a few years before it begins decinigrating.
Most horses use a regular "tree", some horses have narrow shoulders and need a narrow tree, and other horses need a wide tree. The tree is the part of the saddle that fits onto the horse, you can see it when you flip it over. Usually you need to get your instructor, who I trust is experienced in fitting saddles to her horses, to fit the saddle to the horse your going to be riding for a while. There are some good diagrams on the fit of a saddle at this website: http://www.okanagansaddlery.com/Saddle%20Fitting%20Page.htm

As for the seat size, they are measured in inches from the pommel button, diagonally to the corner of the cantle. When trying "on" a saddle you need to sit in a regular position and be able to fit a hand's width in between the front and back of your behind without your hand falling off the saddle (I know this is difficult to visualize). It really depends on how big your butt is.

It is better to have your instructor look for a good used saddle for you to show in, especially if you've just begun to take lessons in the sport. Its better to spend a few hundred dollars on a used saddle than several THOUSAND dollars on a new saddle and go through the hassle of breaking it in, only to use it in a lesson a few hours a week. It really does help your riding position if you ride in the same saddle every lesson (and you usually wont have to adjust stirrups as often).

Some great brand names to keep an eye out for:
Stubben
Crump
Pessoa (although I've heard the new styles have an odd grain to the leather and it makes them look cheap)
Crosby

There are others but I cannot think of them right now.

Something else, there are different kinds of styles of saddles that come with different options (kind of like buying a car). Depending on what sport your doing you'll have to get a saddle that works well with that sport. I've got a close contact since I was doing hunters/jumpers. Some people need knee pads because they cannot manage to keep their legs from staying in place, some dont. All of these things your instructor can talk with you about at the right time.

Plan on spending several hundred dollars for a good used saddle. If your done growing, you can keep this saddle for 20 years or more with good care (cleaning after every ride and before every ride, storing it inside). It can be either the best investiment or the worst investment depending on how much research you do and who helps you find your saddle.

Some of the best places to get used saddles are at high rated shows. The HITS circuit goes all through the east coast and there is usually a huge tack van there, most of the riders get a new saddle once every year or so, and you can get a really great used saddle. I know in Ocala, Florida there are tack shops really wanting to get rid of the used merchandise during show season. Some tack shops will let you test ride the saddle for a week to see how you like it.

Good luck on your search!

[lovechick]

Thanks a lot!!! I also wanted to ask what to use to clean saddle? I was reading in a book that its good to wash the saddle with soap and water and then put oil on it, is that right? what oil? At the barn, when I oil saddles, they use something called "Murphy's oil", they just put it all over the saddle and bridle, and let it dry. But it says on the bottle its for wood and other things to polish.

Which is right product to use? how? and how often?

Thanks

[MagnoliaFly]

I use mink oil (found in the shoe care section of any store). It smells alot better than saddle soap and lasts alot longer since you dont have to use as much. It comes in a little round canister and you just rub it on with a soft cloth.

I cleaned mine after every lesson (especially on hot dusty sweaty days in Florida). It helps to keep the leather supple and not crack. There are lots of other leather cleaners/restorers but I like this one the best. It works really good on leather tall boots too. Pretty much anything leather comes out looking great with the stuff (and it doesnt cost an arm and a leg).

Some saddles like Wintec saddles use regular soap and water because they are made of synthetic materials and you can just hose them down in the yard. They arent really show saddles but alot of people like to use them for schooling. You've probably seen them on your saddle search. I've ridden in a couple, they are comfortable but its hard to switch back and forth from a Wintec to a real leather saddle because the leather begins to feel slippery.

[lovechick]

yeah, I have the mink oil thing, i use it to clean my boots, it works great, i just wasnt sure it would work for all leather, can it be used on bridle to?

and yes we to have synthetic saddle at the school, I like it cause its so light, and feel better than leather ones, but I like when leather saddle are already used a bit, they are much more comfortable and dont squeek.

Also how much in general would u pay for the saddle? and for the whole set is purchased together(saddle,irons w/rubbers, leathers, bridle, pad, girth, bit) ?

[MagnoliaFly]

To be honest, I wouldnt purchase it together. I know what set your talking about, the one on E-Bay for $200 that has everything, well the saddle and bridle is cheaply made, DONT GET IT. They are not comfortable to ride in, usually dont fit the horse correctly and begin to come apart after under a year of use. I made the mistake of buying one when I was first beginning lessons and I lost $100 on the deal trying to sell it to someone else.

So here is what I suggest. Buy everything seperately. The price of the saddle depends on how used you want to go. I'd go with reputable brand names like I listed before and only stick with those. My saddle was used, it was a Crump (about 10 years old but looked nearly brand new) and I bought it for $350. It's a close contact without any kneepads so that cut the cost down a little bit, and I needed to work my leg anyway. So usually saddles that are used will be $300 and up if they're worth their salt.

You'll need two saddle pads, one to show in (white) and one to school in. They've got neat schooling pads now, you can often get matching polo wraps that look super cute. Polo wraps are not necessary on all horses, but it cant hurt if you know how to properly wrap a horse.

Leathers for the saddle should be bought after you've gotten your saddle just so you can match the leather color more correctly. They can sometimes be dyed if necessary.

Stirrups are a different story, you can get cheap stirrups that are just regular with the rubber pads in the bottom (those are a must) and you can get really fancy with them and start paying $100+ for a set. Its really up to you. Just make sure you get the correct width for your foot (measure with any gear on that you ride in so you get the right width)

The girth, bridle and bit should be purchased after you have your own horse. If you want to get a girth, by all means go ahead but be sure you know what size the horse you have lessons on so it will fit him. If your switching from horses to ponies alot its going to be hard to find a girth that fits both. I usually used girths from my stable since I rode alot of different sized horses.

Bits have to be measured to your horses mouth and can get very expensive. All horses bit differently, some prefer rubber, some will only ride in a D-ring snaffle...etc, so its best to wait on the bridle and bit until you own your horse.

I do suggest you get your own grooming gear (curry comb, hard and soft brush, hoof pick, mane and tail comb, sweat scraper, hoof oil, baby oil (careful they leak sometimes) and treats) and halter/lead rope. If you plan on grooming for money at shows these will come in handy. I always kept mine in a neat little caddy and it helped so I didnt have to run around and find brushes before a lesson. Horses loved it because they knew where I kept the treats and would always steal some.

[lovechick]

Thanks a lot, yeah I looked at some saddle on ebay, and theres this set(pic below) that has everything, but no one bids on it, so I was suprised, but people buy the ones that are around $1000.
this set on Ebay :

http://www.foxvalleysaddlery.com/sa4001.jpg for $169

and this: http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/chaudry/.mids/jump.jpg for $109.00

They look fine, but theyre probably arent

But I do like this grooming kit for $29.95, what do u think about it?

http://www.tackoutlet.com/E_Bay/Grooming_Kit_2.jpg

[MagnoliaFly]

Yep, those are the sets that will break after a year and normally not fit the horse. They're made in India with pretty cheap leather. Be glad you didnt get them.

As for the grooming kit, I see alot of stuff in there you really dont need and shouldnt use on a horse (plastic curry comb). The only things you need in a kit right now are:

Rubber currycomb
Hard body brush
Soft body brush
Hoofpick
Fly spray
Mane and Tail comb
Sweat scraper (I've found metal works better than plastic, but thats really up to you)
Carrier (the plastic kind work well since they can get wet and dirty and you just hose them off) You can find them at most hardware stores in the gardening section. They work great.

It can sometimes be cheaper to order things seperately from a place like Dover/Chicks saddlery and get what you want than buy a whole kit and not need half of the things in there. Plus you can sometimes pick out the colors and things to match saddle pads etc. if your into that.

For instance I found this kit for $21.99 from Chicks and its got almost everything you need to start:
http://www.chicksaddlery.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/GK94.JPG

This sturdy nylon bag contains all the grooming supplies you need. 1 mud brush, 1 finishing brush, 1 hoof brush, 1 hoof pick/brush combination, 1 rubber curry, 1 mane & tail comb, 1 sweat scraper. With zipper closure & nylon handles.

If your going to get a grooming box I suggest getting a halter/lead rope of your own. I know in my barn it was usually a hunt for a good one on popular lesson days when most of them were being used. I used an old cat rabies tag to identify it as mine since it was a plain color and it worked out good.

You can just add the other stuff for a few dollars more. Both Dover and Chicks has some neat grooming stuff.

[lovechick]

thanks, yeah I know but I wanna buy some things just for fun(when i get my horse, good news, i can get one, but I need a job first)
I also want to get those rubber things for mane to make braids(for the show)and hoof oil, also do u know what is that thing(the scraper with red handle) from my ebay pic, it is like shedding blade or for cleaning brushes? because we have shedding blade at the barn and it looks different(only 1 loop)...

I also have some other horse caring questions...

Is it a good idea to put electric line over the fence, what is the purpose of it? how high should be the fence?

When building a barn, should it include tack room and place to store hay altogether? and is it ok to wash and clip the horse in the driveway(close to garage), because thats where will install the hose, so i'm thinking we need to attach crossties, and keep my washing supplies in the garage..
do u know any good websites on building a stall? and what is the website for Dover/Chicks saddlery (I'll see if I can find it in google)
Do u know any websites, where I can get free catalog with good horse items?

THANKS!!!:D

[MagnoliaFly]

Not sure about the building questions but for dover saddlery the website is here:

www.doversaddlery.com

And chicks saddlery is here:

www.chicksaddlery.com

Some shedding blades have more than one blade in it.

As for braiding, some people use yarn to tie off instead of the rubber bands, it can be easier to handle sometimes. If you plan on getting a braiding kit, get someone to train you on it first so you know which supplies are more comfortable for you to work with. They have all sorts of training videos you can purchase. It can be a good money maker at shows if you get good and fast at it.

[Arabianhorses]

I usually just break my young horses in an english saddle with a simple eggbutt bit on a dressage bridle. Of course i get them used to evrything before I mount them, but otherwise I just do it the normal, humane way. :) Every horse that I have trained has turned out good, except for that on young stalion that I sold to a lady in OK...... It wasn't me that ruined him , it was the lady that messed up his training. :( It was a sad sight, because that young stallion had TONS of dressage training in him..... :( I also think that you're talking about a sweat scrape, lovechick.

[lovechick]

no, its not a sweat scraper, its made out of metal with plastic handle, its probably shedding blade, or device for cleaning out brushes

[Arabianhorses]

Like a metal currrycomb?

[lovechick]

I guess, what suprises me is that, a brush made of metal, is called "body brush", but then they say"use it only to clean brushes", why did they call is body brush in the first place, cant they call it something else, people get confused over those things..

[PyscoFalcon]

A body brush is made of soft, fine bristles to groom the entire horse with.

The metal one is called a Metal Curry Comb and only used to clean body brushes.

[lovechick]

but in every single horse book I read, its called body brush, which is stange

[PyscoFalcon]

I think what they mean is that is cleans body brushes.

This is a body brush
http://www.saddler.co.uk/acatalog/goatbodybrush_t.jpg

This is a metal curry comb
http://www.countrysupplies.com/pix/product/image-eq-48-704.jpg

[appaloosa]

TO LOVECHICK- never ever ride bareback with stirrups!!!


Just curious, why couldn't anyone ride using a bareback pad with stirrups? (maybe the answer is pretty obvious, but I don't use a bareback pad when I ride bareback anyways)

[Bilbo12]

I always use a bit but I almost always ride bareback I just use a bareback pad when the horse is like wet or when I am wet (like just got out of the pool) and don't want their hair to stick to me.

[RabbitMage]

Oooooold thread, but.

The reason you don't want to use stirrups with a bareback pad is because if your weight is even slightly uneven in the stirrups, the pad will roll and you'll slide right off, or worse, get caught up in the stirrups. Saddles, even the treeless ones, are built to hold on to the horses' back. A bareback pad is just that, a pad, with nothing really holding it in place (the cinch isn't enough).

[appaloosa]

Haha, sorry for bringing back such an old thread! :o

Thanks for answering, I thought that was the case, but I was just checking. Wouldn't a bareback pad like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Leather-Natural-Horsemanship-Bareback-Saddle-Pad_W0QQitemZ330008436787QQihZ014QQcategoryZ47293Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) work, though? You can attach a girth to it for stability. I just noticed it was one of those natural horsemanship ones, too.

[RabbitMage]

I don't think it would help too much. IMO at least, you really need a more rigid structure to help hold on to the horses' back and withers to prevent rolling.

[RoxyBabe]

I got my horse trained using parrelli and I LOVE it!!!!! It works so well!!!!!! =)