What's better Angel fish or Betta's?

[Calichick22]

I just got a new 45 gallon tank with a wooden stand and a wooden cover. I still can't decided what kinds of fish I want to put in it. I know that I love Betta's and Angel fish are cool, but would a Betta be happy in a 45gal tank with other fish in it. I heard and read other forums saying that Betta's like small spaces and non-moving water. I already bought a filter with a spinning wheel and I am going to keep it on all the time to keep the tank from getting dirty. Would that disturb my Betta's?I need help PLZ. I can't make up my mind:bawling:

[Spanish Queen]

If you read my answer to your last post, bettas can't really handle any more than 3 gallons per hour circulation in a ten. So, that would be 6 in a 20, 12 in a 40, 41.5 in a 45.
I believe that bettas do get stressed in big spaces, trying to control all that territory would be crazy if you ask me. But I have heard of people keeping bettas in big tanks.
Wooden cover? As in, after the glass, right? If not, I think this may be a bad idea, as evaporation will undoubtedly occur at elevated rates if you have your tank at the right temperature for tropical fish, 80 degrees farenheight. It will soak into the wood and drip whatever chemicals the wood has been treated with back into the water. Not to mention the smell of wet wood all the time, and likely mildew forming after time.
Jenn

[Calichick22]

The Wooden cover is sealed so that the chemicals won't leak into the water. I did read your last reply to my other question and it helped. The only problem I'm having with Angel fish is that I've never seen colorful Angel fish in stores. There all marble and silver. Could you help me find some colorful ones and tell me where you found them. PLZ:bawling:

[Spanish Queen]

I haven't kept angels in a very long time. Like when I was 7 or 8, my parents had them. One was very aggressive, and chased the other behind a cave we had attached to the back of the tank with suction cups. The poor thing almost starved to death, we had to take them back, cause the aggressive one was too much, and as far as we were aware, they have to be kept in at least pairs.
Maybe you would like guppies instead? They are colourful, and lively, and easy to care for. (At least I have found them to be)
Or I saw the cutest thing in the pet store the other day. I think they were mickey mouse platies? They have markings near thier tail that look like a mickey mouse head. I guess they aren't all that colourful, just white and black, but cute anyways. I suggest doing some research before getting them though. I don't know how big they get or anything. I am currently contemplating where I can put another tank so I can get some. I dunno. I guess 6 is enough. And I will have to move in 2 years (when I am done my degree, and time to move on to my masters)
Jenn

[shanidy]

Most angels are marble and black. I haven't seen any other colors around here. I know there are a few internet retailers that sell a lot of variety, but I think shipping is a little expensive. Angels are hard to keep. They like calm. quiet water and are very fragile until they reach a certain age. They are an aggressive fish and you must be very selective about what fish live with them. Also, most people suggest that only one angel per 10 gallons of water. Are you prepared to only have 4 fish in your tank?

[Andi]

I think you should have a betta and angelfish if you want. You can provide a shelter for the betta in the top corner, so they don't have to deal with alot of space to defend, or moving water. I've seen them in lots of tanks with community fishes and they like to hang out in one corner of the top of the tank. Good luck. By the way I've seen some really beautiful angels with black and white at the stores. If you want something colorful I would suggest dwarf gouramis. They are really nice and calm species. You can have 2 in your aquarium.

[Calichick22]

Hey it's me and i still can't make up my mind. I hear that Angels are mean and that Bettas don't like moving water. OMG. What will i do????? If I were to get Bettas and put them in my 45 gal. How many could I put in there and what kinds of fish are friendly with bettas. I love Bettas and think they are beautiful. But what shall i do?????:bawling:

[EmilyRugburn]

Don't get a betta for this tank. One thing I've learned in my years of keeping fish, and years of moderating fish forums is that they do NOT do well in larger tanks and it's mostly because of the water movement created by the filter.

If you'd like to keep a betta, and they ARE gorgeous and very smart, then I HIGHLY recommend getting it a small 2 gallon tank of its own. You can keep a single male betta in there. You never want to keep bettas together, not even males & females because they will harass each other. Betta breeders keep them in large jars and only put males & females together long enough for her to fill with eggs, and for him to squeeze them out of her. Then the males & females are separated once again.

As for your 45g, I would put one angel in there, and a colorful type would be the koi angel.

http://www.aquariumfish.com.my/fishnotes/angelkoi.html

As you can see, they're lovely.

Putting more than one in this tank would cause problems. See, cichlids (angelfish are cichlids from South America) are excellent parents by nature, and the angel is no exception. If you put a couple in this tank, and they pair off, they will keep all of your other fish confined to a teensy space on one end of the tank so they can have their breeding territory.

Or worse, you get a same sex pair, and one keeps the other one confined to a teensy area just because it can.

So, get one angel, and then some smaller fish for variety.

If this were my tank, I'd stock it something like this:

1 koi angel
5 cories for the bottom
7 serpae tetras (or 7 black phantom tetras)
9 or 10 rummynose tetras

[Viel]

Bettas are good puts but perfer to be by themselfs

[Calichick22]

Well thanks for the advice guys, but I was thinking. I would like like to have more than one Angel. Is that bad? will they fight? like Betta's do. I don't want to breed because they have somany babies. I would aslo like to liven up my tank and put some colorful fish in with my Angel or Angels( when i get some fish). well i hope that someone helps me soon because it is almost time for me to get fish. so plz help me. I would also like fish that have fun personalities. PLZ HELP ME:bawling:

[EmilyRugburn]

Putting more than one in this tank would cause problems. See, cichlids (angelfish are cichlids from South America) are excellent parents by nature, and the angel is no exception. If you put a couple in this tank, and they pair off, they will keep all of your other fish confined to a teensy space on one end of the tank so they can have their breeding territory.

Or worse, you get a same sex pair, and one keeps the other one confined to a teensy area just because it can.

Guess you missed it the first time.

[Calichick22]

I got u reply but i was also wondering what kind of colorful fish can be in the same tank as angel fish? well i hope more people can help me.:alien: thanks anyways.

[EmilyRugburn]

Your main question was whether or not adding another angel would be "bad" and since it had already been answered, I was puzzled as to why you'd ask again.

anyway, other colorful fish... you can put some rummynoses in there, or some platies. You can't beat platies for color, but they make lots of waste, so you don't want to over do it.

Still, becuase of the size of the tank, I'd add one angel, and let it be your "star", and then use the rest of the tank for "filler" fish like a school of rummynoses or maybe a school of harlequin rasboras or perhaps some serpae tetras.

[Calichick22]

thanks. I do listen and i have all of that info in my head and i will use it. i liked how u sayed my angel would be the " star'. thats a good idea. so......rummynoses?.......hum.....i've never heard of those. if my angel is along will it get bored and pick on the other fish? would it go good with swordtails and platies? I heard that tetras would bite on Angels. but i used to have a Betta with tetras and they would sometimes pick on my poor little baby boy. So my question is sence i'v though about the Angel and i'll get one to be my " star". What other nice and peaceful but high spirited fish will be happy to live with my Angel? plz again!!!:angel:

[EmilyRugburn]

Originally posted by Calichick22
i liked how u sayed my angel would be the " star'. thats a good idea. so......rummynoses?.......hum.....i've never heard of those. if my angel is along will it get bored and pick on the other fish? would it go good with swordtails and platies? I heard that tetras would bite on Angels. but i used to have a Betta with tetras and they would sometimes pick on my poor little baby boy. So my question is sence i'v though about the Angel and i'll get one to be my " star". What other nice and peaceful but high spirited fish will be happy to live with my Angel? plz again!!!:angel:

Not a problem. Treating one fish like the resident celebrity is a really neat thing to do because it enables you to build the rest of the tank around that fish, and your final display looks so much nicer, and the fish seem happier.

For example, some people would take that wonderfully sized tank of yours and put 2 of this, and 2 of that, and before you know it, they will have a "Noah's Ark" going because they like EVERY fish they see, and can't decide what to keep! LOL!

That happens to everyone, which is why serious fish keepers usually find themselves with more than one tank. I used to have 6 going, but now have only 3 (time constraints) but know people who have 12 tanks!!

Anyway, rummynoses are also called rummynose tetras. No, they won't bite your angel. Angels aren't wimpy little namby pamby fish. They're cichlids (sik-lids). LOL! That should speak for itself. Most fish that fall into the cichlidae categories are going to be able to hold their own. Some of them (especially the ones from Africa's Lake Malawi) are downright MEAN!

Some tetras can be downright mean, though, too, unfortunately. Black skirts can be quite, um... "gangsta" when they want to be.

Pencilfish would be a good choice because they're really peaceful. They like to "hover" rather than swim. there are several types out there so you can pick from a variety.

Hatchetfish might be cool, too. They stay at the top of the tank, but they can "fly" out of it so the tank will have to have a really good cover on it, but a small school of those could be fun. They're not colorful though, but they are odd shaped, and that might appeal to you in spite of the lack of coloration.

The black neon tetra might be a good choice, too. The body gets a little more rounded than a common neon tetra (which would become fish food) and they have a lovely electric blue stripe, and a metallic orange "eyelid".

Swordtails are a good choice! Did I say that already? Since you like them you should know they would be a good choice.

Emporer tetras are kind of pinkish and have a black stripe and a blue "eyelid". You might like these (or maybe not). LOL!

If you visit Aquahobby.com, they have a Gallery of lots of fish. You could go browsing and see if there are any fish you like.

[Calichick22]

ok if u say my other reply on my other question i asked what is a good clean up crew but still colorful. i looked at rummynoses and they are not that good looking. could i get neon tetras? I have decided to get one Angel and that will be my "star". so what other fish will be good remember i have a 45gallon tank with a cover. By the way thanks for the info so far.:agree:

[EmilyRugburn]

I wouldn't do neon tetras w/ an angel. NOt only are neons very sensitive and tend to die on just about everyone, but the angels like the looks of them, and in the wild, feast on neons regularly. Their bodies are very slim. Black neons would be OK, and so would cardinal tetras, however cardinals are VERY pricey.

Cleanup fish aren't really colorful. You could get a single albino bristlenose plecostomus. It's bright to say the least, but plecos get VERY lazy and before you know it, they're doing nothing but making a huge poo mess & nothing else.

[Calichick22]

ok so, an Angel. what are thosefish called with the black and white pokadots callled. well those are cool looking. and i see them hang out around the bottom of the tank and they suck on the glass. ok so no neon tetras. will the shark pick on the fish that is at the bottom with it? well i hope not.:alien:

[EmilyRugburn]

I *THINK* you're thinking of some kind of pleco. You have to really know what you're getting with those because some of them grow to a full 24" long. Some (like the clown plecos) stay small, but they do nothing but eat your decorations & poo everywhere. They're useless for algae. Some other plecos are not even algae eaters, but meat eaters.

The shark should be OK with whatever you put in there, as long as the body shape isn't similar to its own.

[Calichick22]

ok so lets try to make a nice a peaceful tank.
we've got.
1 blushing Angelfish My "star"!!!

3 Dwarf Neon RainbowFish (how big are they?)

5 platies (the poopers)

Black tetras (how many?)

and 1 Rainbow shark?

do the Sharks eat the platies wonderful poop? (eww) if not should i get some catfish?
could we chat?to make this quicker? if not that's ok

[Calichick22]

hey,
could i have ur aol instant messenger name so we can chat about fish? i really could use the help. if not that's ok!

[Andi]

The spotted fish that swim at the bottom of the tank are called cuckoo catfish. They grow about 4 1/2 inches and are peaceful. And there is no such thing as a clown pleco. They are clown loaches and grow to about 12 inches! Also, I wouldn't get platys even though they are colorful because they are vegetarians. You should make sure that the fish eat the same food. Rainbow fish are nice and lots of tetras are calm fish. Some of the Dwarf African Cichlids are peacful and very colourful. Don't buy barbs or danios they are too aggressive. You should keep angelfish in pairs. They are shoaling fish and will feel more comfortable in pairs. I would recommend you buy a book and do some research before you buy fish. I have one called Aquarium Fish that is very good. Also, if you have a good aquarium store where you live, you can ask the staff for advise. There are no fish or snails that eat poop. Plants do though. It's a good idea to buy some natural plants. By the way, don't just take one person's advice on everything. Goodluck.

Andrea

[EmilyRugburn]

Excuse me, but there IS such a thing as a clown plecostomus! They are NOT clown loaches (which I also have). Please do your homework on fish species before telling people "there is no such thing as...".

Clown plecos also go by the name "candy stripe pleco". You can visit PlanetCatfish.com and do a search and see for yourself.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/core/index.htm

They are hands down the filthiest of the smaller plecos and I'll never own another.

The "cuckoo catfish" is a member of the Syndontis species, and they do best in African cichlid tanks. They also do not "stick" to things and suck algae from surfaces, which is what the original poster was asking about.

http://www.acay.com.au/~hyperd/multipunctatus.html

Angelfish are shoalers when YOUNG, but not when they are older.

As for the platies diet, while they may be vegetarians (and angels carnivores), they also eat brine shrimp and meaty foods and ALL fish benefit from a VARIED diet, so they would be OK in this tank if the original poster would like to keep them.

In a sidenote: books often contain misinformation.

[EmilyRugburn]

Originally posted by Calichick22
hey,
could i have ur aol instant messenger name so we can chat about fish? i really could use the help. if not that's ok!

It's in my profile.

[Calichick22]

ok so i got ur aol name. lets hope that ur on when i'm on. look at the other post. it asks about the tetras. are there other small tetras that are nice looking that will go good with Angels and the other fish that we decided? and i hope u know what u r talking about. u know the fish stuff. because i guess some people don't.

[EmilyRugburn]

Originally posted by Calichick22
are there other small tetras that are nice looking that will go good with Angels and the other fish that we decided?

That YOU decide. It's your tank. LOL!

Black neons would be gorgeous because of the blue stripe, but yes, there are other small, peaceful fish that will work.

In fact, there are so many, it's really hard to suggest anything because I know I'd leave out something. Lemon tetras, blue tetras, green fire tetra, black phantoms, ... And then we have rasboras, too, which are also small, peaceful fish.

What you might want to do is go to a fish store in your city, and just take a look around and see what they have before you get your heart set on suggestions made online. Some cities don't offer very much in the way of fish, and it's a shame.

Don't ask the sales people what they suggest either. I've heard some STORIES! OMG!

One guy in a store where I shop told someone it was OK to keep angels with some Pseudotropheus demasoni. Angels need soft water, demasoni need hard water. Demasoni are African cichlids and they are downright MEAN! They are NOT suitable for a tank with angels AT ALL, and for so many different reasons, I couldn't list them all.

In another store a woman was telling someone it's OK to keep discus (which grow LARGE) in a 5 gallon tank as long as they kept up on the water changes. Nevermind a 5g tank is too small and it would stunt the fish.

I could go on all day about things I've heard employees tell people. There are some people who give correct advice in the stores, but very few. It seems like they'll tell you anything you want to hear just so they can make a sale.

and i hope u know what u r talking about. u know the fish stuff. because i guess some people don't.

LOL! I know what I'm talking about, and if something is out of my league, I will definitely say so. I help moderate a fish forum, actually, and have been assisting people w/ their fish for a long, long time.

[Calichick22]

i've looked up some tetras and i saw some of the glowlight tetras. they say that the fish does good with Angels. they also say that the fish glows. i think that is pretty cool. and i was wondering if sharks are as good as catfish. sould i get catfish instead of the shark. because i can get more than one. i think that the shark would be pretty lonly in a 45 gallon al by itself. should i get a pleco? or not? thanks 4 your help so far. :agree:

[EmilyRugburn]

Originally posted by Calichick22
i've looked up some tetras and i saw some of the glowlight tetras. they say that the fish does good with Angels. they also say that the fish glows. i think that is pretty cool. and i was wondering if sharks are as good as catfish. sould i get catfish instead of the shark. because i can get more than one. i think that the shark would be pretty lonly in a 45 gallon al by itself. should i get a pleco? or not? thanks 4 your help so far. :agree:

OK. Glowlights will work with angels. I don't know about "glowing" though. LOL! They do have a pretty metallic orange stripe, though.

As for sharks being as good as cats, it depends on what you're after. Sharks can be territorial, and cats are friendly. I love my red tailed shark to pieces, but also love the little cories in the tanks.

Cories are fun, and they "blink" and "wink" sometimes, which is really cute. They are great for getting the leftover food on the bottom of the tank, but they DO need to be fed, so you want to make sure they get enough to eat. This is easily accomplished by "stirring" the food just a teeny bit once it's been added to the tank. The action makes the food sink more quickly, and the cories can get some.

Sharks don't really mind being alone. Mine actually thrives on it. He hates his tankmates, and gets really pissy sometimes & chases them around the tank. He's my big, spoiled baby, though, and he can do no wrong. LOL!

I'm not a fan of plecos, but lots of people like them. A bristlenose pleco would be OK in your tank, but frankly, I much prefer the otocinclus. Plecos get lazy & expect to be fed food on a regular basis. They'll sit & hide all day long just waiting for you to throw in some food, and they'll eat that & leave the algae. LOL!

It's all personal preference, though. Some people don't like the otos because they are small & sometimes cannot tackle tough algae jobs.

[Calichick22]

ok so from ur help i have picked some of the fish.
but i still need u to help me

1 Angel fish
catfish or 1 shark ( i'm leaning twords the cats)
cherry barbs
white cloud mountain minnows
glowlight tetras

i either have to get cherry barbs or white clouds. i think i like the white clouds better. i don't want to risk my Angel if i get the cherries.

how was ur movie? what did u see?:D

[EmilyRugburn]

It was OK, thank you for asking. I didn't mean to rush out on you so quickly, but we had to leave to make the 8:00 showing.

We went to see "The Matrix: Reloaded" over at the IMAX. $43 for the 3 of us to get in. The price was RIDICULOUS, but I live with 2 men (husband & son) and their testosterone was a little more powerful than my estrogen, so they won. LOL! Action films are NOT my kind of thing at all, but at least the Matrix series are well-made films with a really good story.

Your fish choices look really nice! What do you need help with? The numbers of fish?

Keep in mind it's better to understock than to overstock--for HOSTS of reasons---, so my numbers might be a little lower than what other people would use. Sometimes if you SLIGHTLY overstock a tank, but keep up with 30% water changes once per week, and go easy on the feeding, you can pull it off without any problems.

OK.

1 angel
5 cats of your choice
11 glowlights
9 White Clouds


OR

1 angel
3 cats
15 glowlights
5-7 White Clouds

You can adjust the amounts of fish to suit your personal preferences. Glowlights are teensy & don't put off tons of fish waste, so you can add a few more of those than you'd normally think was OK. By decreasing the amount of White Clouds (which are larger) and the amount of cats, it kind of balances out a bit.

You don't have to stick with those EXACT numbers. Feel free to play w/ them a bit taking care to subtract something if you're going to bump up the numbers of something else.

[Andi]

Sorry,

I thought you were talking about clown loaches, I never heard of a clown pleco before.

Andrea

[zac08]

Originally posted by EmilyRugburn


That YOU decide. It's your tank. LOL!

Black neons would be gorgeous because of the blue stripe, but yes, there are other small, peaceful fish that will work.

In fact, there are so many, it's really hard to suggest anything because I know I'd leave out something. Lemon tetras, blue tetras, green fire tetra, black phantoms, ... And then we have rasboras, too, which are also small, peaceful fish.

What you might want to do is go to a fish store in your city, and just take a look around and see what they have before you get your heart set on suggestions made online. Some cities don't offer very much in the way of fish, and it's a shame.

Don't ask the sales people what they suggest either. I've heard some STORIES! OMG!

One guy in a store where I shop told someone it was OK to keep angels with some Pseudotropheus demasoni. Angels need soft water, demasoni need hard water. Demasoni are African cichlids and they are downright MEAN! They are NOT suitable for a tank with angels AT ALL, and for so many different reasons, I couldn't list them all.

In another store a woman was telling someone it's OK to keep discus (which grow LARGE) in a 5 gallon tank as long as they kept up on the water changes. Nevermind a 5g tank is too small and it would stunt the fish.

I could go on all day about things I've heard employees tell people. There are some people who give correct advice in the stores, but very few. It seems like they'll tell you anything you want to hear just so they can make a sale.



LOL! I know what I'm talking about, and if something is out of my league, I will definitely say so. I help moderate a fish forum, actually, and have been assisting people w/ their fish for a long, long time.


EH... when did the black neon come up with a BLUE stripe?? It's all black and a stripe of cream....

there's no blue there

[EmilyRugburn]

Mine have a metallic blue stripe. In fact, some days it's green, some days it's blue.

I guess it depends on a person's lighting. The ones you've seen might look cream because of the light they reflect.

All of the ones I've seen in the stores reflect the same colors as mine: blue or green.

[Calichick22]

omg, i am sorry that i couldn't write back sooner. i was stuck in the hospital 4 quite a while and with no internet. ( that really sucked)!! but i have to change a few things on my aim so my new aim screen name is jiselle22. so we can chat more. i will be on mostly at nights, because of school so i hope that we can chat more that now i am well and at home. ok so i will start getting back to my fish business and look up some more fishy stuff to ask about. I am so greatful to have u to help me. so thatnks a bunch!!!! I saw the Matrix movie. ( it was ok)!!!

thanks:agree:

[Shivason]

Both fish are aggressive and do not work well together. If you want a community Tank Neither is a good choice. And a Betta can fit into this, but do not put in with it any fish with long or large colorful tails.

Brian

[brandi12]

If your having trouble finding a color fish you like. Why dont you try www.aquabid.com . Its like a fish ebay you bid on live fish! and tanks, heaters and other such things.