Pet Shop Opinions Hurtful

[Fur to Fins]

I have spent the last few days reading this forum when I happened upon it while researching a request/question from one of my customers.

I was reading the forums about pet stores and how a responsible breeder would not sell their animals/pets to a pet store and how some do not shop at pet stores that sell animals, particular dogs or cats, though some agree with small animals.

My issue here is that I own a pet shop. Its not a franchise or a chain. I am not getting rich, and some years I am not even making a living. I do it because I love it and because I believe that I can make a difference and right some of the wrongs that have occurred in the hands of pet shop owners.

I do sell dogs and cats in my shop. But I do not buy from puppy mills. How do I know? I have a few breeders that I buy from. I know them, I have been to thier home to pick up the puppies. I buy one pup at a time from them. I may have at one time 4 pups of 4 different breeds. Usually less. I do not "stock up" on cheap pups that I cannot sell. I make absolutely NO money off of these puppies. I keep them for two weeks before putting them in the store for sale to ensure that they are healthy and sound. They see the vet the day after I get them (I work Mon-Sat so I pick up on Sundays, they see the vet Monday) and the again exactly two weeks later. If they are healthy, they can be sold. The puppies (and kittens, as they are treated the same way) are crated in separate crates at night, but during the day they are kept in a child gate in the store front right beside me. I play with them, I start on training and walking on a leash, and I feed them science diet. Sometimes, I even take them home with me at night (if they have completed their shots, as I have larger dogs at home, I do not want to get them sick). If I do not sell them by the time their next check up is due, I pay for it and take them. I have a vet that is contracted to inspect my animals. All of my cats and dogs have a health certificate, which is required in Florida. I have their shots record and everything up to date. When ever some one comes in and shows interest in purchasing one of my puppies, we go over alot. Diseases and traits specific to the breed. Where the person lives, where will the dog stay, who is their vet, what animals do they currently own, past experience with this breed, past experience with animals in general. On top of that, I have an application. The person purchasing the dog knows the breeder gets a copy of the application as they hold the registration for this purpose. There is also the spay/neuter contract. On the contract, it states that if they bring me the reciept from the vet where they had their pet spayed or neutered, I will reimburse them that amount, or $100, which ever is less.

So if I did not have reputable and responsible breeders, then I would not be able to do this. If some of you have an issue with the crates at night, as a dog trainer, I can tell you that crate training is the most effective and humane way of training there is and these pups are already started by the time they go home.

As for my exotics, my reptiles, my birds, my rodents, I always verify adequate housing. Also, next to each animal is a print out that states the size of an adult, the requirements, the issues associated with the species, and required diet. I sell everything they eat. I sell a fresh mix (done in my shop) of collards, carrots and yellow squash for iguanas. Gut loaded insects and larva. Gut loaded rodents for reptile consumption.

Yes, I do gut load them with nutrional food for the snakes benefit, but I always try to sell frozen food first. I have always fed my snakes frozen food for one important reason: I thaw the food to exactly 80 degrees. My hand is 98 degrees. Over time the snakes learn to differentiate me from their food. And its safer.

I do not shop at chain store or franchise pet shops because of pet factories, but most mom and pop stores do this for the love of the animals, not the money.

JMHO

Thanks

[Punkygirl0101]

Firstly REPUTABLE breeders do NOT sell their puppies to petstores. The ONLY reason a person needs to be breeding a dog or a cat is to BETTER the breed/animal..and breeding them and selling them at PetStores is IRRESPONSIBLE. Dogs that are of good quality to breed have to be SHOW dogs, and shown in conformation or agility..and they ALSO have to be health certified, AND have many tests (Such as for Hip Dysplasia) and genetic tests done on them. And people who do that do NOT sell their puppies at a pet store..they have homes lined up BEFORE they even breed the dogs and they have a waiting list.

So the puppies you are selling are from backyard breeders. ;) Therefore, its NOT responsible. Now what I DO support is petstores that have dogs that are rescues..like my Petco. Adoption agencies who have lots of rescues come to their facilities every Saturday and Sunday, and do adoption drives.

Nobody has a problem with crate training..as all of us reccomend it as a housetraining method.

What size cages are the rodents, for example rats, in? What do you feed them? For some reason I have a feeling they are kept in tanks and fed seed mix.

[Fur to Fins]

The pups I buy are from show lines. I am on the waiting list for these pups. I have the pedigree of each parent in hand before I agree to buy these pups. I bred Great Danes for years, and I never sold a pup with out hip and elbow xrays. My dog threw several show pups and I never bred sub standard dogs. My dogs were house dogs, as are the dogs that I buy from. I did have a waiting list before I bred, but waiting lists do not always work out. I had 10 on a waiting list, 2 changed their mind due to life issues, and I had 14 puppies. So I had 6 pups with no homes. Did that make me careless? I treated them as my own until they went to forever homes. It was not foreseen, but I was wanting a pup off of my male, who was a Ch. So No, these are not Professional Breeders, and nor would I buy from someone who made their career from breeding dogs. But these dogs are bred for the betterment of the breed. To acheive the next perfect champion and specimen of the breed. Also, these dogs litters are rare. But they still sell to me. I have no lower level of respect for this.

Dont you think that if more breeders would allow their dogs in pet shops, it would close down the puppy mills?

I do not allow the local shelter to put their animals in my shop because they have a half witted semi retired vet that works for them that does what bare minimum it takes to get by, and they will not consent to me having the animals vetted. They have mites, fleas, and sometimes mange. I have also had one snap at a customer. I am not putting my animals at risk for that. I feel bad, and I always support as many organizations as I can. I am a member of the ASPCA and give a hefty % of my shops income to the Humane Society and the ASPCA.

I am a CVT. I studied under some of the best exotic vets in the SouthEast. I know what and how to feed my animals and I always educate people before they purchase an animal about diet and habits and issues that may arise. The only thing I have in tanks in my shop are fish. And I spend hundreds of dollars each month on fresh fruits and vegetables for my animals. Seed mix can cause damage to the liver and kidneys in some rodents and some birds. Grains are sometimes more starch than nutritious. I feed my animals under recomendations from vets that specialize in exotics, and usually a certain type, such as an avies vet, small mammal vet, etc.

The mission statement for my shop : EDUCATE To educate the public about the upkeep, life expectancy, health, habits, diet, and requirements of any and every animal BEFORE the person makes the commitment to the animal. QUALITY To place quality animals with homes where the animal will improve the individuals/families quality of life, but above all, to find quality home for pets that will improve the animals quality of life.

I stand by this. I love my animals, and I fall in love with every one that walks/crawls/flies/swims through my shop.

This is not my job, its my life. My point is that not all pet shops are bad. But all massive breeders are. Plain and simple, people come in to see the animals. I dont make any money off of them, I actually lose money, but they bring business to my shop where I can help others. If more responsible breeders would sell to pet shops, I am sure they would not want to buy cheaper less quality animals from BYB.

I do have a breeders board where breeders who are open to me inspecting their sire and dam can post upcoming litters. I also search out breeders for customers that have special requests.

I know I am not going to change any ones mind, but I would hope that it is recognized that not everyone who owns a pet shop is bad and not every responsible breeder who allows a pet shop to sell thier pups are bad.

[ThisVacantHeart]

fur to fins - I used to work in petstore that sold puppies and kittens. They came from "puppy brokers". You are going far above and beyond what is generally acceptable in pet stores.

[lilangel1518]

Hey fur to fins :) I really enjoyed your posts. I think you sound very well educated and care for your animals. I actually live in florida and I was wondering where you are located. I live in St. Petersburg and if your store was semi close I would love to come in and visit and buy the supplies for my pets. Welcome to the board and I hope you don't get offended by some peoples comments. Take care


Amber

[Punkygirl0101]

Fur to fins, maybe your pet store is responsible..it sure sounds like it, and I wish you lived here..but MOST are not. I have YET to go into a responsible mom and pop shop..I have YET to go into a shop that sells puppies and kittens and find them responsible.

And though I disagree STILL with you selling puppies..your shop does sound very responsible.

(If you want to stop puppymills, its better to NOT sell puppies in your shop. If the breeder who breeds those puppies really cared about bettering the breed, they would be selling the puppies to people who will continue the lines and try and better them further.

[Rachy1412]

I personally just disagree with selling animals. I don't think we should sell or breed animals full stop. Because as long as you do animals will be seen as entertainment, toys and there will always be people who are abusing them. I would be much happier if there wasn't pets in this world, only wild animals who can live a natural life.

If you want to help because you love animals then why don't you actually help and run a rescue/shelter. Selling animals is not helping anyone, it just adds the the overpopulation whether your responsible or not. If you don't make any money then how do you live?

Can I just ask some questions about the care of your guinea pigs, since those are the animals that I know the most about! What pellet feed do you give them? How big of a cage do they get? Do they get any veg and if so what? Are they seperated by sex? Would you ever keep a guinea pig alone?

I am sure you love animals and I guess alot of mom and pop stores do but I don't understand why you want to make a problem worse? A true animal lover would rather rescue and save animals than continue to add to the overpopulation problem, surely? When I am older I want to run my own petshop, I want to sell only the best food and housing for all animals. I won't sell animals fullstop, I will rescue them instead and adopt them out via the petshop. I will not just sell animals to people, never to see the animal again. However, I realize that it takes alot of money to do that, it is a shame that the government doesn't help animal rescues.

[bruises]

IMO, pet shops that sells animals encourage impulse shopping.

It's good that you start with training and such for the puppies, but can you really give all the animals you have proper socialization? What kind of birds and reptiles do you sell? Since you mention iguana food, I'm assuming you sell iguanas, which I personally think is really irresponsible.

Sure, crate training is good. But do you check in on the pups during the night to let them out and such? And just check things are okay? I know my own dog, lovely little [expletive deleted] that he is, has managed to chew his way out of a lot of crates and has sometimes injured himself in the process. Also, out of interest, what sort of dog breeds do you generally sell?

I completely understand why you don't want to work together with that local shelter. It does seem like a place I wouldn't even recommend anyone to go to. However, you can always take in abandoned pets on your own, who knows, you might even be able to get some funding for that. Is there no other shelters around?

Which makes me think of something else; do you and/or the breeders keep contact with the new owners? What would happen if they would have to give up their pet for some reason? With the dogs, would the breeder take them back? Do you let people know to contact you if they'd have issues keeping their pets?

Really, you do seem to be very knowledgeable and do a lot for the animals you are selling, but I personally still don't think that selling animals in pet stores is a good thing.

[Rachy1412]

IMO, pet shops that sells animals encourage impulse shopping.

I never thought of that one bruises! I've personally never impulsed buy but unfortunately alot of people do, especially those with children!

[Punkygirl0101]

I completely agree with that statement Bruises..if you visit the rat forum you willl know that MOST of my rats are from feeder bins....and if those were not there, and animals were not sold in that store (I go in there because its the only store that sells high quality dog and cat food) then I would still only have 3 rats.

Also, can I ask what dog foods you sell? Any high qualiy (Such as chicken soup,wellnes,innova,etc)?

[ratbrat21]

i kinda agree with everyone. Breeding while so many animals are in shelters just seems wrong to me. Even if the breeders are reponsible and all. Why breed and bring more animals into the world when there are millions without homes and dieing in shelters? Especially cats and dogs. I don't know much about guinea pig, rabbits, reptiles and the like are but i know there are to many cats and dogs in shelters. I do understand what your saying but try to understand what we are saying too. There is a mom and pop store in town here and its the crappiest place i have ever been too. i'm not saying yours is. You sound a ton better but this place just sickens me. Anyways thats all i had to say. No one is bashing you or anything. Just maybe try and see it from another side.

[tvrodents]

So the puppies you are selling are from backyard breeders

This is jumping to conclusions again. If the breeders are known to the pet shop and kept in a happy and healthy environment then whats wrong with that? I wouldn’t personally buy a puppy from a shop purely because I would want to see the parents.

The mission statement for my shop : EDUCATE To educate the public about the upkeep, life expectancy, health, habits, diet, and requirements of any and every animal BEFORE the person makes the commitment to the animal. QUALITY To place quality animals with homes where the animal will improve the individuals/families quality of life, but above all, to find quality home for pets that will improve the animals quality of life.
A person after my own heart! I am a small scale breeder and I do talks at schools etc to promote awareness… don’t buy if you cant look after it but this is the joy of animals kind of thing.

I do have a breeders board where breeders who are open to me inspecting their sire and dam can post upcoming litters. I also search out breeders for customers that have special requests.

I wouldn’t sell any of my furries to a shop that didn’t want to come and inspect my breeding room and animals. To me this is good practice. I like shops to have pictures of the animals parents to hand too.

I personally just disagree with selling animals. I don't think we should sell or breed animals full stop. Because as long as you do animals will be seen as entertainment, toys and there will always be people who are abusing them. I would be much happier if there wasn't pets in this world, only wild animals who can live a natural life.

Thankfully, such an extremist opinion is not likely to take on. Wild animals do not ‘enjoy’ a natural life. People think that a wild animal lives a cute, fluffy, free life… it doesn’t. It spends its life scraping for a meal, avoiding predation and finally dying either on a road or at the teeth and claws of a predator. That’s not an enjoyable life. Animals only roam for miles in search of food or a mate… not because they enjoy trekking four miles in a night. The concept of nature being enjoyable is an absolute fallacy

dieing in shelters

Why are you lot taking in animals from shelters when they are being treated so badly they are dying? This to me is shocking!!!

Well done to the OP for running wht sounds like a decent business. You are a credit to other pet store owners. It is such a shame that there are bad shops out there as they marr the trade for the rest of you

Kat

[Punkygirl0101]

There is absolutely NO reason to sell a puppy in a pet shop. RESPONSIBLE breeders have new owners lined up BEFORE the puppies are born...the BREEDER looks for the homes themselves. No "breeder" who supplies puppies and kittens to petshops are responsible.

Why are you lot taking in animals from shelters when they are being treated so badly they are dying?
I think you are confused. The reason animals are "Dying" in shelters is because there is SUCH an overpopulation problem because of breeders (Good or bad really) that shelters are so crowded, animals have to be euthanized to make room for more.

[Rachy1412]

Thankfully, such an extremist opinion is not likely to take on. Wild animals do not ‘enjoy’ a natural life. People think that a wild animal lives a cute, fluffy, free life… it doesn’t. It spends its life scraping for a meal, avoiding predation and finally dying either on a road or at the teeth and claws of a predator. That’s not an enjoyable life. Animals only roam for miles in search of food or a mate… not because they enjoy trekking four miles in a night. The concept of nature being enjoyable is an absolute fallacy


If you believe that then your deluded. A natural life is better for wild animals, I wouldn't go putting domesticated animals back into the wild. Mother nature is a b**** but it does it for a reason. I would much prefer seeing animals running around in their natural habitat rather than someones back garden shed in a cage. While we still have pets thousands will die due to abuse and cruetly, the only way to stop that is to stop having animals as pets full stop. Just because the animal lives in a cage doesn't mean it still doesn't fear predators, it will still worry about where it's next meal will come from (normally rodents not cats/dogs.) If you would rather have animals because you enjoy them and need something to do than let them be free and end cruelty/abuse then thats your choice.. I hope you can make the right selfless and moral choice.

[ratbrat21]

Wild animals do not ‘enjoy’ a natural life. People think that a wild animal lives a cute, fluffy, free life… it doesn’t. It spends its life scraping for a meal, avoiding predation and finally dying either on a road or at the teeth and claws of a predator. That’s not an enjoyable life. Animals only roam for miles in search of food or a mate… not because they enjoy trekking four miles in a night. The concept of nature being enjoyable is an absolute fallacy


see now this makes sense to me. I'm not saying its right but it makes the most sense to me. Animals as pets...in good homes im talking about have such pampered lives. They get fresh food every day and water and dont have to worry about being eaten. And that to me sounds better then them in the wild and never knowing when the next meal is and so on. But i know nature has its way of doing things and some animals are meals for others and so on. Anyways im getting confused again so im gonna let you all debate about this. lol

[Rachy1412]

see now this makes sense to me. I'm not saying its right but it makes the most sense to me. Animals as pets...in good homes im talking about have such pampered lives. They get fresh food every day and water and dont have to worry about being eaten. And that to me sounds better then them in the wild and never knowing when the next meal is and so on. But i know nature has its way of doing things and some animals are meals for others and so on. Anyways im getting confused again so im gonna let you all debate about this. lol

Ah yes but a prey animal will never loose that fear of a predator, maybe when they've been domesticated for thousands of years but not right now. Have you every come down from high above your guinea pig, does he run off? That is fear of being eaten. With guinea pigs, rabbits and other rodents they don't loose that fear, they get used to humans and trust them to a certain degree but will run if they feel slightly threatened.

If we have animals as pets there will always be ones that are tortured and abused, it is really right to allow that to happen just so that us good people can have a pet?

[Moosley]

If we have animals as pets there will always be ones that are tortured and abused, it is really right to allow that to happen just so that us good people can have a pet?

I just wanted to say that, as animals have been keps as pets since.... well.... as long as we have existed... and thats formed a habit, a trend and a *need* that is NEVER going to be broken.

I understand that you think it would be better that no one has pets, but that is never going to happen, so whats your opinion if we take out the fact that no one should have pets, in your opinion.

Besides... you have pets dont you... you have a lot of views but dont really uphold them yourself.

[Rachy1412]

I have pets because I want to give the ones that are on this planet a good life, I don't go out buying from petshops and breeders. I choose to help those in need rather than be a hypocrite, I am meerly giving those animals a better life than most would.

We haven't had pets since we exsisted, cows, sheep, pigs yes but not "Pets". We never used to keep guinea pigs in our front room in cages. Just because we did it in the past doesn't mean we should carry on.

[Moosley]

you are forgetting cats and dogs. two of the first domesticated species. pets.

[Rachy1412]

What has that got to do with anything? They weren't domesticated since the dawn of time! You think that just because we did it in the past we should continue?

[Moosley]

Well I have no issues with keeping pets LOL

My point is that it's been done for so long that it is *never* going to change and hating those who come onto this forum because they keep or sell animals is *not* going to help the cause is it!?

[Rachy1412]

Slavery was around for a very long time and not many people saw a problem with that but it chaged. How is keeping pets any different from slavery? I don't hate anyone and I am never rude or mean to anyone on this forum.

[tvrodents]

keeping ets is differnt from slavery on the grounds that pets get good food, nice enclosures, daily 'massages' in the form of being petted and stroked, love, warmth, water whenever they want it...
Doesn't sound like slavery to me. I understand why you feel as you do but you really *aren't* going to change the opinion of any one that keeps their pets in a good environment and looks after them properly. To me it would be more logical to spend your time trying to do something about the state of the animals used in agriculture when they have to cross the border into the rest of europe form the UK. These animals are amongst the most 'abused' anywhere. Our countries legislation doesnt apply to them once they are in france of germany or where ever so they are no longer protected by laws that state that they have to have access to water at least once every eight hours or that for every nine hours spent travelling they have to get an hours rest out of the vehicle.
I can truely understand why you are so passionate but your views are yours and not every one elses. I think sometimes you might forget that.

Kat

[bruises]

"keeping ets is differnt from slavery on the grounds that pets get good food, nice enclosures, daily 'massages' in the form of being petted and stroked, love, warmth, water whenever they want it..."

Not all gets all that. Many lack at least one of those things. Some pets even go without water, which I consider to be the very basis of a living existance, for a long period of time.

Sweeping generalizations are bad no matter what direction they're done in.

[Rachy1412]

We all have our views.

I would say the minority of animals get to live perfect lives, others have to make do with what the owner decides for them and then you have the rest who are abused. Some slaves lived a "good" life with owners who brought them so that they weren't beaten and cruely looked after. I don't see how forcing an animal to breed and showing them is any different from slavery. They have no say in the matter, mainly because they can't speak but you really don't know what your pet wants and I can tell you my animals are much happier not having to look after a load of babies!

[tvrodents]

hmmm... point taken. I was only referring to those kept by decent people such as ourselves.
Its one of those things that no amount of debting is ever likely to solve.

Kat

[Rachy1412]

Well no, us debating about it isn't going to change anything and I realize my "extremist" view is probably never going to become a reality but I still have the right to feel this way! I just take comfort in the fact that atleast some animals are very well kept!